I found this on Ergun's fan page. I often wonder where our country is going, because we allow fake experts on Islam to train our police, FBI, and servicemen. Ergun is just one. Also the commenter is right, you can not vilify, lie about, cheat, and mock any religion and expect them to accept Christ.
Why do people actually do this? There are so many people like him now. Come on I know we Brits joke around but we didn't know Americans could be this DUMB! Who in God's name let him give lectures to the MILITARY? If you want to vilify Muslims please try harder. You're an embarassment
as one christian said to prove islam wrong u need the gospel..u dont villify lie cheat mock any religion then expect muslims to accept jesus as lord.
PS - Can anyone help me find Ergun's other military lectures?
March 2, 2003, Ergun told a church that he could no longer travel to Iraq, because he become so infamous. October 6, 2003, he told the local press that he had been to Iraq that summer. (I love the name misspelling.) Perhaps, the military flew him in or the invasion of Iraq, begun March 20, 2003 changed the atmosphere that much.
Albany- Southwest Georgians who gathered at the Hope for America Rally for Christian praise and worship got a lesson on world religion.
"This is a war against America the Christian nation," said Ergun Canar, an associate professor of theology at Liberty University in Virginia. Liberty University was founded by Jerry Falwell, a conservative Christian leader.
"This is what we see in Islam," Canar.
Canar believes with his Christian heart that America should be in Iraq. He knows, he says, because he was raised as a Muslim. Canar converted to Christianity 20 years ago after moving here from Turkey with his family.
Today, he's a theology professor who spends much of his time explaining Islam. He says one of the greatest misconceptions Americans have about some Muslims is that we can negotiate with them. He says for the extremists, this is a holy war.
"So for them this is not about negotiation," Canar said. "This is about conquest. This is their crusade."
Canar was in Iraq this summer. What he saw was not people who hate Americans.
"What we have done in Iraq, what our boys are doing as we speak is they have given my people the first opportunity in four generations to hear the gospel, to share their beliefs, to share their opinions without being stoned to death."
Just as worshipers at the rally have the right to freely worship God.
As a former prayer leader at Liberty, my mind often flashes back to a prayer leader meeting with Dwayne Carson. He told the story of a Convocation speaker that was caught buying pornographic movies at the Wingate Hotel, the night before he was to speak in Convo. Liberty was paying for his hotel, but the speaker thought that he could wake up early, pay his bill and Liberty would be none the wiser. Little did he know that the man behind the desk was a Liberty student. The student called the University and the speaker was turned away when he came to speak.
Dwayne told us this story to let us know that the Campus Pastors took who they put in front of students very seriously. They wanted to make sure that every preacher who spoke was a man or woman of integrity.
I wonder how Ergun made it through. I thought, well maybe they did not know he made those claims, but below is a Champion article from February 26, 2002. I vaguely remember the convocation the article references.
Years ago, he lived in constant fear. Always wondering, if he died that day, would Allah find him at least 51 percent good? Ergun Michael Mehmet Giovanni Caner, the son of a Muslim pastor, now not only lives in peace and joy, but also shares how God's grace changed his life in 1982. Caner shares his testimony and information about the Islamic faith often. After the Sept. 11 attacks he was called in to the UN to address Muslim thinking.
Caner, Professor of Systematic Theology and Church History at Criswell College, briefly shared his testimony and a message at convocation on Monday, Feb. 18. Caner attended Criswell College at the same time that campus pastor Dwayne Carson attended. They remain good friends.
"Until I was 17, I thought my life would be in service of Allah," Caner said. He was born into a Muslim family in Stockholm, Sweden and raised in Turkey, Lebanon and Syria. In 1978 his family moved to Brooklyn, N. Y., where he said he learned English for the first time.
In high school, he faithfully pulled out his rug three times a day and went in the bathroom to recite the Islamic creed, he said. Most people made fun of him, but one day a friend invited Caner to attend a revival service at his small Baptist church. He went.
"That little church loved me to the cross and preached Jesus to a kid who didn't know who Jesus was," Caner said. He described the relief he felt in finding out he did not have to work his way to salvation.
Though his father, an Islamic pastor, disowned him when he became Christian, his two brothers, mother and grandmother have now all received Christ.
Caner explained that Muslims believe everyone is born with two angels, one on each shoulder, constantly weighing that person's good and bad deeds.
Life is lived in fear of the scales and a hope that when they die Allah will find them at least 51 percent good. The only eternal security a Muslim can have is in martyrdom.
"Those 19 men thought that by shedding blood, they'd find forgiveness," Caner said of the men involved in the suicide terrorist flights of Sept. 11.
When asked if he believed whether Osama bin Laden was still alive, he said, "Yes, because if a Muslim knows he's dead, he must be proclaimed a martyr." It is one of the protocols of Jihad that if a Muslim dies a martyr, any Muslim who knows is obligated to tell it to others.
Caner's message came from Acts 16, when Paul and Silas were imprisoned. He noted how the men praised God in prison and did not flee when the doors were opened so that the jailer and his family could be saved.
"In Acts, the jail was turning into a church house, but today many churches act like jail houses," Caner said. "The secret is that it's better to be in prison with God than in the palace without him." He said that too often church has become tradition and drudgery.
"It takes a true man of God to praise when nobody else is," Caner said.
After Caner spoke many students went up front to meet with him. He made a point to say hello to each one.
"I like his testimony," freshman Nora Willsher said. "The message was really good and I really liked him."
So there you have it. Before Ergun came to work for Liberty, he told the Liberty students that "born into a Muslim family in Stockholm, Sweden and raised in Turkey,
Lebanon and Syria. In 1978 his family moved to Brooklyn, N. Y., where he
said he learned English for the first time." Liberty knew what he was about.
PS ~ I do not know what Dwayne's current position is on Ergun's fabrications. I was just trying to point out that in this instance they swallowed the camel.
PSS ~ Ergun maintains publicly that he did not intentionally mislead the Champion into believing that he was "raised in Turkey,
Lebanon and Syria" and moved to Brooklyn, NY in 1978. He maintains he was trying to say that he moved to the United States in 1969 and gained his citizenship in 1978. According to Dr. Norman Geisler, it was well known that he gained his citizenship in 1978.
When does Ergun confront culture on the frontlines? He works at a Christian college. He regularly travels on the weekends to preach at churches. He spends weeks of his summer teaching at Christian youth camps. He blocks his critics: Atheist, Muslim, and Christian.
When does he find the time to confront culture on the frontlines? He seems to spend most of his time around friendly audiences, many of which pay to see him.
PS - For some reason this unsourced little rant has become one of the most popular things on the blog. I would recommend some of the sourced material.
Does Emir Know? explores the three different versions of Emir Caner's testimony that Ergun has given.
Mother Smuggling explores Ergun's claims that his father smuggled his many wives across the United States border.
After 9/11, Ergun Caner became a popular speaker. However, he was prone to lying about his past. This particular video series deals with the irreconcilable versions that Ergun has presented about his brothers’ conversions. In 2001, he began saying that he converted November 4, 1982 and a year later, he preached a seven minute sermon. That Sunday night his brothers supposedly converted. However, Ergun and his brother Emir wrote a bestselling book. In Unveiling Islam, Ergun converted. His brother, Erdem, converted in their basement. Then a year later, Emir, not Ergun, converted November 4, 1982. Around 2009, he began saying that it was not until he was away at college that he found out his brothers converted.
Now on with the show.
Pastor’s Perspective interviewed Ergun Caner January 2010. Ergun said many things incorrectly about himself. He said he came to America as a fiery young man. He came to the United States before his fourth birthday. He said, he was completely disowned by his family. However, his parents were divorced at the time. He was disowned by his father and continued to reside with his mother and brothers. He then repeated again the claim that he lost his family. Again, he continued to live with his mother who was not a Muslim. Don’t take my word for it.
Brian - It is really the battle of between the political correctness or essentially liberalism and Islam. And liberalism can’t battle Islam, because they don’t really even know what they’re up against.
Ergun – They don’t know what to do with someone who believes in absolutes. They have no problem with modern Buddhism which becomes part of the ecology movement. They have no problem with Hinduism, which is part of the environmental movement.
But they have a real problem with Islam, because Islam doesn’t play well with others. They won’t meld. They won’t mesh. They won't dilute. Islam is Islam - and that was me coming to America: a fiery young man - all three of us, the three sons from our mother - all three of us devout Muslims - our father just this hero to us and when I converted - disowned by my family - completely disowned - father cut me out of the pictures - a year later both of my brothers became believers.
All three of us have preached. Myself and my youngest brother, the one who writes with me, we are both presidents of universities and we decided that we would write under our own name, because most of those who write books about Islam, Norman Geisler wrote an incredible book with Abdul Saleeb. Well, Abdul Saleeb means in Arabic, slave of the cross. The use assumed names, because it is the problem. Muslims will say how dare you say these things? And I point out the irony, so you are saying stop saying we are violent or you will kill me.
You know, where do you draw that line? It is why it is easier to make fun of Christians, because Christians won’t fight back.
Brian – Yeah, well I’ll tell you along those lines, when I was living in London, there was a producer in some part of Europe, whether it was Italy or France or somewhere and they made a very blasphemous movie about Christ and they were coming to London to premier the movie and guess what the Muslims stood up and said if you come and show this movie, we will blow up the theater, we will kill you, and of course they changed their mind and decided not to do the premier. I thought that was interesting that we got Muslims coming to the assistance of Christ.
Ergun – And the reason they do so is the Christ that they defend is not the Christ of the Bible. You know Mohammed basically, I get this all the time about the Allah, Jehovah. How do you witness to a Muslim? How do I explain to them? The insider movement, can I say that Allah, I want to tell you about Allah’s son? And I’ve never in twenty years of debates, discussions, interviews, etc, I’ve never met one Muslim who has ever said that the Allah of the Quran is the same as the God the Bible. Never. It’s only glue sniffing Christians who will turn around and say oh come on you know it’s the same God. It is deceptive and it is a lie. Muslims are adamant and Christians should be adamant. They are as adamant as we used to be.
Now there are still people who are very adamant, but by and large Christianity has become C.S. Lewis’s classic, Men without Chests. You know we have no guts.
Brian – You’re not in that category.
Ergun – I don’t you think you are either. But after I lost, you know I lose my family, what else can you lose? I lost my family, my culture, my language, my people. I knew nothing. I’m this kid who never had AWANA, never had Vacation Bible School, never had Sunday School, and now I am a believer in Jesus. For me the first thing you should do is go to the mosque and tell them about this grace. The first thing that you should do is tell everyone that you know. I can’t imagine a silent Christianity.
Brian - Now how was it that your brothers came to faith? Was it through your witness to them or?
Ergun- No, it was through the work of others. It was through the work of others. I was disowned. And I find out that my brothers had become Christians, I'm in college. And so it is what I hammer a lot, about the anonymous, the silent, behind-the-scenes, in the shadows kind of Christians who literally do the work that guys like ourselves cannot do.
Ergun is asked how his brothers came to Christ. He said, he could not witness to his brothers, because he was disowned. He answered that found out his brothers were Christians in college.
This is curious. As you know, Ergun was born in 1966. If he was saved in 1982, as he has claimed, he could not have been any older than 16 years old. Emir has claimed in numerous locations that he was saved, November 4, 1982. Again the oldest Ergun could have been was 16. 16 is not a likely age for a college freshman.
Does Emir know about this?
Like this video if you like it. Subscribe for more videos.
freeblackmansmiling
For those who are keeping count, here is the scoreboard.
Traveling at the speed of sound an object would leave this image in three seconds.
A couple of months ago, when I had more time, I did a video about Kamal saying he saw a vision of God as a supersonic eagle. I tried to point out that the human eye has visibility limits and the speed of sound is really fast. The image above is drawn to scale with one pixel representing one foot. Scaled, the picture is about three mach seconds wide (3378 ft). Kamal is standing on the mountain. The female eagle is below him. The approximate maximum distance Kamal could have seen a soaring eagle with an 8 foot wing span is 952 feet. The furthest the eagle could have traveled was 1016 ft, which is less than one mach second.
This is a blow up of the image to one mach second
I know this is supposed to be a vision, but there is no way that Kamal could have observed an eagle traveling at supersonic speeds, because the eagle would have disappeared in less than a second.
I could make videos about Ergun's conferences and camps. However any video I made would pretty much follow the model of the En Fuego 2012 video.
You say that you are this type of organization and your goals are such.
Ergun is a lying preacher and worse he maintains that he has never lied once in his sermons.
This conflicts with your mission.
Therefore you should not have an unrepentant liar as a speaker for your event.
After many emails to various individuals, I am pretty certain that most people who would have Ergun as a speaker would not cancel him if they found out that he is a dishonest preacher.
Also, during the summer, most of Ergun's events are youth camps. I try to leave minors out of this. En Fuego was not necessarily a youth event.
Ergun is leading another Israel trip for Arlington Baptist College next year. This brings to mind something that he said when he led one for Liberty University. In his Garden of Gethsemane sermon, he noted that he came to Israel twice as a Muslim. While this is not impossible, Ergun was forbidden to travel outside of the country with his father by April 1978. His mother was concerned. (His parents had separated about three years prior to when Ergun was about 8 or 9.)
So after the age of 11, Ergun was forbidden to go to Israel. Geisler has speculated that Acar took Ergun to Turkey several times. He did not say whether these trips were before 1978 or after. Perhaps, his mother did permit Acar to take Ergun outside of the US, ignoring the separation agreement. Also, perhaps his students should ask him about those first two trips.
Saunders has really done an excellent job compiling the information and interviewing Nick. A year ago, we knew about this arrest from Colin Pearson. Now it is great to have the information from the arrestee himself.
MCDebate has done a great job compiling James' interview with Colin with what we have learned from Nick.
This is a quick summary of the "Does Emir Know?" series thus far. There are more examples and if you have watched my Ergun huevos video, you know that I have far more examples of Ergun saying his brothers converted while he was in college.
I understand that everybody does not have time to listen to hours of Ergun sermons. Also, I understand that everybody does not have the hour that it would take you to watch the entire video series. So I made this video to sum up the story thus far. I think that it is pretty safe to say that Ergun has given many contradictory versions of Emir's conversion.
Transcript:
The third column is going to fill up.
Hold on everything is going to be fine. For those of you who have watched the full hour of the “Does Emir Know?” video series, thank you for watching. This video is going to be largely review of things that I fleshed out in other videos. For those who have not watched the entire series, this video is for you. Don’t worry, I have extensively documented every assertion that I am about to make in other videos. These videos will appear above with annotations to take you to them.
Sometimes it is best to look back at from whence we came and look towards where we are going. There are more examples to give, but this will be a place to deal only with the examples provided so far.
The primary focus in this video series has been the claims that Ergun has made about his brother Emir. The recent video about his parents’ divorce was more of a halftime show. Here we will sum up the chronology.
After 9/11, but still in 2001, Ergun preached at Prestonwood Baptist Church that both his brothers had converted after he preached a seven minute Sunday night sermon. He also claimed that he had converted November 4, 1982.
In 2002, Ergun and Emir coauthored Unveiling Islam. In one of the autobiographical sections of the book, Ergun converts on a Thursday. Erdem later converted in their mother’s basement. Then Ergun invited Emir to a revival service where he converted that Thursday night, November 4, 1982. Notice at Prestonwood, Ergun converted November 4, 1982, but in Unveiling Islam, Emir converted November 4, 1982. Also, notice that his brothers converted at separate times, when at Prestonwood, they converted the same Sunday night. Also, you will notice that this is the only example I have of this order of events.
Ergun continued to claim that he was the one who converted November 4, 1982. So did Emir, but that will be dealt with in another video. One example from Ergun was provided from 2005. Here he simply stated with no real details that his brothers were saved a year later. A 2007 example was also provided, however in this example, he stated again that his brothers converted after a seven minute Sunday night sermon. I provided 2008 example, where he again stated that he, not Emir, converted November 4, 1982. His brothers are said to have converted a year later. Like usual, no details are given.
As mentioned, Ergun generally claims that he was a High School Senior, November 4, 1982. He was not. He was a Junior. However, if he did convert as a Senior, the logical inference is that a year later when his brothers converted, he was a college Freshman. 2009 at Calvary Chapel Old Bridge is my earliest example of him claiming this.
So here, we have at least three different conversion stories provided by Ergun about Emir. They cannot all be true. Again, these are not the only examples of Ergun making such claims. Also, again, Emir has continued to claim that he was the one, not Ergun, who converted November 4, 1982. I have no examples of Ergun repeating the version of Emir’s conversion that is contained in their book.
Even though, chronologically Ergun’s claim about November 4, 1982 and the seven minute Sunday night sermon came first, I have assumed that the story in Unveiling Islam is the true one. It was coauthored by both brothers and it was the version that was put into print. Still, does Emir know that Ergun has said so many things about him?
Like this video if you like it and subscribe for videos.
Music
"Remember How It Started" and "Dream Player" provided by danasongs.com
Can't God use a mistake, a failure, a falsehood, a lie even...for good? People all over the world are pushed to believe in God from the secular world. Secular music, art, and even movies influence people towards good. The biggest tragedy in my opinion related to is the personal integrity issue that was created. His preaching is strong, moving, Godly, and biblical. Even our biblical heroes were often greedy, rage filled, selfish, liars, adulterers, murderers, tax collectors...etc. Saul, Solomon, David, Moses...and so on. But we learn from their lives, their messages, mistakes, failures, and see that even in the things they have done, God still loves them, and we still learn from them. Thanks to messages like, "Scratch n' Sniff Spirituality." I find myself truly guarding my heart, and living as though this life on earth isn't all their is. I'm thankful for the learning, and the teaching from Mr. Caner, and I'll forever love messages like, "Love, lies, and Landmines". If you feel you can't trust the man, take the teaching, and put them against the bible, and decide if they are worth learning from.
This fan later wrote in the comments:
Yeah, so I'm a liar, you're a liar. We all lie. None are worthy of the forgiveness of God but he still showed love and mercy for us by sending Christ to die for us. I promise that you lie, I promise that I lie. I promise that even pastors and holy men lie. If you say you don't, I already win the argument. I don't condone his lie I disregard the sermon in fact, but God can use anything for his purpose. Even if we make our own lives miserable by doing something we know he doesn't want us to do. I. know that people can still find truth in the Biblicaly/Godly inspired words of EC's sermons. If you were fans before you were "betrayed", and you began changing and living your life differently after hearing the sermons, then you know you felt the Truth inside you're heart especially if the teaching was in fact biblical. If you were a hater before and a hater after, you're living in an ungodly way the same as a liar.
I went to Fiji years ago with a group called shake the nations. They touched people and helped lead many to Christ. They fed the hungry, built shelter for the homeless, & made lasting change...several years later, the president was arrested and sentenced to 15yrs for embezzlement and financial crimes...does that mean the good we did was voided? No way.
Listen to his sermons: "Scratch n Sniff Spirituality" and "Love Lies and Land Mines." Tell me otherwise. They've strengthened my marriage, and my armor of God allowing me to be a better person at outreach, and to guard my heart otherwise.
A couple of sentences struck me.
Can't God use a mistake, a failure, a falsehood, a lie even...for good?
Even our biblical heroes were often greedy, rage filled, selfish,
liars, adulterers, murderers, tax collectors...etc. Saul, Solomon,
David, Moses...and so on.
Yeah, so I'm a liar, you're a liar. We all lie.
Then this:
I promise that you lie, I promise that I lie. I promise that even pastors and holy men lie. If you say you don't, I already win the argument. I don't condone his lie I disregard the sermon in fact, but God can use anything for his purpose.
There is just one problem. Ergun maintains to this day that all his sermons, lectures, and videos are 100% lie free. For all those who think that Ergun lied and we just need to forgive him, according to Ergun that's slander. We all lie? According to Ergun, he doesn't...at least not in his sermons. "I have never intentionally misled anyone."
I found this on Mark Williams' website from 11/18/12. It is from his 2010 book which cites a radio interview that he did with Ergun. (If anyone has that interview I would love to have it.)
Seriously, Mark needs to update his information.
Update:
I am often puzzled how some of these uber-pro-American types support a guy who refuses to apologize for lying to our Marines.
FBCJaxWatchdog (WD) is a haus and doesn't need my defense. I just wanted to point out some nonsense in the comment section of his latest post.
This blog is on life support.
It is dying and is not being visited hardly at all.
I am thankful and prayers are being answered.
He is our defender and I pray for you Tom. You have a heavy burden to carry for trying to tear down God's Church.
I suspect that this commenter attacks some versions of God's Church. I suspect he would challenge papal infallibility. He is probably a critic of Jeremiah Wright and Al Sharpton. We all go after things calling themselves God's Church. It is a foolhardy card to play that you can't go after something calling itself God's Church.
2007:My Mom was divorced when my brothers became Christians. My Father left her, blaming her for our conversion.
2008:When my Mom got saved, because my father left her, because I became a Christian.
2009: You see, my Father left my Mom, because he blamed her that we got saved.
2011: My parents divorced, my Father blamed my Mom for our conversions.
The most obvious explanation for these four statements is that Ergun is trying to say that his father divorced his mother, because his father blamed his mother for their conversions. However, Ergun, Emir, and Norman all teach that this explanation is the false one. They all teach that since Ergun has claimed he never lied in his sermons this explanation must be false. However, they have not said what Ergun was trying to say.
They seem to believe that Christians should be given the benefit of the doubt. For example, Ergun said the following in a speech to the Marines at New River.
(3:10) My father had more than one wife at a time. As you know the Quran says in Surah four that you are allowed up to four wives. My father had three.
He even doubled down on the statement in the same speech.
(59:57) They have problems with immigration. I became an American
citizen…uh…and stood up and took the vow and came in legally. We got
stopped at the border, because my father had listed my mother as
property. It’s true. And the guy said, “Your wife’s not property.”
And he said, “of course she is.” Then he brought his “sisters” which
is his other wives that’s how we bring in our other wives to America.
We call them our “sisters”.
(33:20) We got stopped coming to America, I can’t believe I’m telling
you this, but I’m gonna. We got stopped coming to America in 1978. My
father listed my mother as property on the manifest. Acar Mehmet Caner
listed Monica Inez Caner, my mom, as property. And by the way, he
came to America like many Muslims do with many wives, but polygamy is
not allowed. It’s called the Abraham lie. Who knows what I’m talking
about? This is my sister, that’s right. So my father had, he said,
‘This is my wife, Halah, and these are my sisters'. It explains the
last name.
How does Ergun, Emir, and Norman explain these statements? They argue that he was trying to say that his father divorced his mother and then remarried. See they believe in giving the benefit of the doubt...but then there is this.
Oh well, so much for the benefit of the doubt.
Seriously it should scare you that these educators are teaching civilians, servicemen, and kids to think like this. Scarily, smuggling wives across the border, becomes a divorce and remarriage.
According to Unveiling Islam, Dr. Ergun Caner’s parents’ marriage was doomed from the start. His mother was raised in Stockholm and educated all over Europe. His father was a Turkish immigrant with very different views. What is important here is that according to Unveiling Islam, Ergun’s parents divorced prior to their sons’ conversion to Christianity. There is a link in the description to the relevant portions of the autobiography.
The marriage was doomed from the beginning, a clash of cultures. Our mother was an only child, raised in Stockholm and educated all over Europe. By the time she was twenty, she had attended the Sorbonne in Paris, and had traveled the world. Father was from heartier stock. As the youngest child in his family, he had earned everything he owned and was steeped in Islamic culture. Their assumptions about marriage clearly clashed.
The divorce, which was finalized in America, was painful. As in most divorces, the children became the human “ropes” in a tug-of-war, torn between parents. A pattern developed of weekend visits between Columbus and Gahanna, in central Ohio. Yet even the wrenching experience of divorce could not prepare us for our father’s disavowal.
Entering high school, Ergun was a typical young man, except that he was a devout Muslim. Even through the divorce, our parents had maintained our rearing in the mosque. Each weekend, we would travel to Broad Street in Columbus, Ohio, where our father had helped found the Islamic Foundation. The mosque in Toledo was too far a drive, so the Foundation Center was established. Father did the call to prayer on occasion.
This was verified by divorce documents obtained by Jason Smathers. Ergun’s parents separated in 1975 and finalized their divorce in 1978. These documents are uncontested. In defending Ergun, Norman Geisler, noted:
Further, that Ergun was reared a devout Muslim is proven by his father’s testimony recorded in the divorce proceedings documents which ironically Ergun’s critic placed on the internet.
In another defense, he referenced the order of events. “After the divorce, he was raised by his mother who obviously had not disowned him since she was no longer a Muslim. But his Muslim father who had remarried did disown him.” Relevant portions are made available in the description below.
The Charge that His Family Did Not Disown Him When He Converted to Christianity as Caner Claimed that they Did.—It is true that after the divorce he was raised by his mother who obviously had not disowned him since she was no longer a Muslim. But his Muslim father who had remarried did disown him. This is the Muslim “family” to which he referred. This was very painful to him since he lived only a half hour away but could not even speak to him.
- In Defense of Dr. Ergun Caner: A Response to His Critics
OK, we all know the time line now. In 1975, when Ergun was about 8 or 9, his parents separated. In 1978, when Ergun was about 11 or 12, his parents divorced. Ergun later converted to Christianity somewhere in between 1981-1983, depending on which version of his story you go by. Emir and Erdem converted somewhere in between 1982-1984, depending on which version of their story you go by. The point is that the divorce took place 4 to 6 years prior to their conversions. Anyone who said otherwise would probably be lying. Cue clip from 2007.
If you are going to change the world, find you the Jewish equivalent of Bill Gates who can fund this movement. What ya talking to a poor person for? Strike four, she’s divorced. This Brittney Spears of the first century, five times, don’t you reckon after three or four she might think it’s her? Might be me?
Jesus said, “You answered correctly, five times, you had five husbands.” And in many churches, that’s the Scarlett Letter. Neither I have been divorced or my wife. Both our families have been through it. My Mom was divorced when my brothers became Christians. My Father left her, blaming her for our conversion. And when my Mom got saved, in 1991, there was nowhere she could serve, because our little church said that if you were divorced you can’t serve in any capacity. It is no longer the “Scarlett A”, but the “Scarlett D”.
Oh no! Surely there must be some other explanation for Ergun saying, “My father left her, blaming her for our conversion”. Come on guys! This is my 25th Ergun Caner video on this channel. You all know that I am going to provide multiple examples of Ergun making the same false statement over and over again. Then I will ask you which is more likely, that Ergun accidentally said his father punitively divorced his mother or that he said so purposely? So cue 2008. This clip was only five months later.
Strike four, she’s divorced. Jesus busts her, doesn’t he? He says, “You answered right.” “You’ve had five husbands.” This biblical Brittney Spears, has gone through husband after husband after husband. Don’t you think at some point she’d say, “Maybe it’s me?” But don’t you think that happens in the church all the time? We have sort of a new Scarlett Letter don’t we? My apologies to Hawthorne, but the big letter’s “D” now.
I’ve never been divorced. My wife’s never been divorced, but our whole family both sides decimated by it. And often in the church, the whispers the divorced hear, how, “Who are you?”
When my Mom got saved, because my father left her, because I became a Christian. When my Mom got saved, she couldn’t serve in the church where she got saved, because she was divorced. Jesus what are you talking to this divorcee?
This next clip is 12 months later. You will notice that I edited the clip with about a minute and a half before Ergun begins preaching on divorce. One, I like providing longer clips. They help you understand that I am not deceitfully giving gotcha moments. By all means, please listen to the unedited audio which I have linked to in the description below.
Two, I do hope you appreciate the irony. You will see what I mean in a moment.
Three, this is one of Ergun’s notorious youth events. These are teenagers that he is talking to. When I was a youth pastor, I wanted Ergun to speak to my youth group. By God’s grace, I am glad that he never did. Later on that day, Ergun will even tell the youth that at age 8, he was betrothed to a Turkish girl while he was still living in Istanbul, Turkey. Ergun, here, is lying to kids, kids that trusted him. How could he do this? Let us just cue clip 2009.
And we lie. Somebody asks you what kind of home you come from. Somebody asks you to tell the story. Somebody asks what’s your background? Somebody asks you what you struggle with. We lie.
Don’t you understand if God can get you through whatever it is that you are going through, that’s part of your story? And the reason that God kept you here to survive that was to help others who may be going through that? Don’t you understand that there are people you can talk to who would never listen to me? They would never show up to listen to a guy with a four hundred pound pumpkin head talk, but they will listen to you, because you have earned their trust. They will listen to you, if you tell them your story. Your scars become your story when you are willing to admit your weakness. That’s why he says, “We ain’t preaching ourselves, we preach Christ.” Your most effective witness will be before those people who know you, who know you and understand where you came from. Use whatever it is you deal with. Use whatever it is from which you came. Use it. Tell it. Be transparent. Don’t fake it and you will be astonished at the number of people who will listen to you. You have a story that God’s given you.
How many here, by a show of hands, come from a divorced background? Me too. We don’t talk about it, not in the church. That’s the new Scarlett Letter. I’ve not been divorced. My wife’s not been divorced. Everybody else in our family is. Not like our brothers, not Jill’s brothers, not my brothers. Our parents, Jill’s parents, her uncles and aunts, my uncles and aunts, everybody’s gone through it and when they come to church they feel like they got the “Scarlett Letter D”.
And so when I talk to those people and I say, “Let me tell you what my parents went through.” You see, my Father left my Mom, because he blamed her that we got saved. And those that come from a divorced background go, “I’m right there with you”.
In 2010, less than a year from the last clip, Ergun released his statement that he never intentionally misled anyone. I have provided so far three clips in which Ergun says he never intended for you to believe that his father divorced his mother due to her sons’ conversions. Do you buy that? You would expect with all the attention given to false statements like these; Ergun would stop making them in 2010. However you would think wrong. My next clip is from 2011.
My parents divorced, my Father blamed my Mom for our conversions. In 1991, with three boys as Christians, my Mom got saved, my Mom. My Mom is now remarried, a man from her discipleship group, who is now a supply pastor. Just got called to be an interim pastor, which is hilarious, which makes my Mom and an interim pastor’s wife. If you knew my Mom, you’d know how funny that was. Because if my Mom ever comes to your door, you’ll know it. Heavy accent, little woman, smoking, smoking, I mean chain smoking, pall malls unfiltered. “Filters are for wimps.” And she’ll do it witnessing. “I want to tell you about Jesus”.
Do you remember Ergun’s friend, Norman, who pointed out the divorce documents as proof that Ergun was a devout Muslim? Remember, he also noted that the divorce came before her boys conversion? Surely, he would correct Ergun? Nope, he’s right there.
Look if I had gotten married, if I ever show you a picture of Jill, she is a great godly woman, but my wife is hot, hot, hot. Like we stand side by side and people will go. All the time, all the time, Dr. Geisler will tell you.
The summer of 2010, he defended his brother saying, Ergun had demonstrated "unquestionable Christian character". This was just "a few incorrect statements". He said, "His character, integrity, and bold witness are truly an emulation of a shepherd's heart and an evangelist's passion." March 15, 2012, Emir referred to Ergun as "one of God's most anointed expository preachers".
I do not what you say, when one of your brothers lies publicly about your own mother. However, I definitely would not defend him as having “unquestionably character.” Perhaps, when someone lies about their mother, they are one of God’s anointed, but are they really one of God’s most anointed? Then again, does Emir even know?
Thanks for watching. Like the video if you like it. Subscribe for more videos.
In my last video, there was a clip where Dr. Ergun Caner said the following.
My father was an Ulema in the mosque. An Ulema is a scholar. He was an
architect by vocation. And when we came to America in 78, through
Brooklyn, we settled in Columbus, Ohio to build mosques. That is
exactly what my father did until the day he died, 1999.
Now according to Dr. Norman Geisler any reference to Ergun coming to America in 1978 is a reference to him getting his citizenship in 1978. It is supposedly "well known" that Ergun became a citizen around the age of 11 or 12. So the fourth sentence should read:
And when we came to Americaobtained my citizenship in 78, through
Brooklyn, we settled in Columbus, Ohio to build mosques.
I don't know, but regardless of what Norman says, that still sounds fishy to me. :)
Ergun
maintains that he never intentionally misled anyone. What are the odds
that I can provide you with two more examples of him claiming he
converted the same day that his brother?
Prestonwood Baptist Church, 2001
November 4, 1982
Decatur Baptist Church, January 12, 2005
November 4, 1982
First Baptist Church Pearl City, June 1, 2007
[Indiscernible] It was November 4, 1982.
The Downtown Church, April 19, 2008
I went home, November 4, 1982
Generally Ergun falsely claims to have been a High School Senior in 1982 during his conversion.
First Baptist Church Pearl City, June 1, 2007
He
started when we were Freshmen in High School in Gahanna Lincoln High
School in Gahanna, Ohio. He did not stop until I was a Senior going into
my Senior year.
Canyon Creek Baptist Sermon, July 31, 2011
Started my Freshman year and wouldn’t quit until my Senior year.
C3 Church Sermon, January 1, 2012
Finally going into my Senior year, I decide, ‘You know what? I’ll show you.
Fortress of Faith interview, June 4, 2012
He kept coming and finally going into my Senior year in High School, I decided I’d take him up on his challenge.
If
he converted as a High School Senior, the logical inference is that he
was a High School graduate a year later when his brothers converted.
What if I can provide you with an example of him claiming to have
converted November 4, 1982 with a bonus? What if I can provide you with
Ergun saying also that he was in college when his brothers converted?
If all of this is unintentional What are the odds that such an example exists?
The main point of this video series has been that these errors by Dr. Ergun Caner occur too often and too purposefully to be accidental misstatements. Ergun claims, even today, to have converted in the same year, during the same month, on the same day, and even on the same day of the week as his brother Emir. Let’s say I accept that one was an accident, OK. Ergun also claims to have been a High School Senior, on that day November 4, 1982. OK, let’s say I accept that one was an accident. Ergun also maintains, November 4, 1982 was his fourth year in High School and Jerry had pursued him for four years. He even counts out the years frequently on stage. Let’s say that I accept that Ergun often does not remember his correct graduation year. What are the odds that he would make all these errors in the same sermon? What are the odds that he would consistently make these errors in almost every sermon that I have available to listen to?
What are the odds that he would claim that his brothers converted while he was a Freshman in college too? I hope you see that as you start adding the errors that he consistently makes about himself and others it becomes increasingly unlikely that he made these mistakes accidentally. At this point I am not even really pointing out the three different versions of Emir’s testimony that Ergun provides.
In the introduction to this video, most of the examples I gave of Ergun claiming to have converted his senior year were from 2011 and 2012. I was trying to demonstrate that he has not stopped making false claims. I could have easily pulled more from the sermon that I provided.
Do you want to know why I teach full time? Do you want to know why I am going to be here until I die? Because I love my life. I get to be around those kids everyday. I get to be around kids like, Jerry Tacket. Jerry Tacket was an obnoxious kid trying to earn an awana badge. I don’t know. I don’t know what it was. But beginning in my Freshman year and going until my Senior year, Jerry Tacket never took “no” for an answer.
For 3 ½ years, almost 4 years, Tacket kept coming after me. Dude, do you want to come to the lock-in? Dude, you want to go roller skating? Dude, fifth quarter? Hotdog hogout? Pizza pigout? All those youth things that people do? “No, no, no.”
Freshman year, Sophomore year, Junior year, leave me alone. I have my prayer rug in the locker room and I’d roll it out and I’d be praying. My forehead to the ground, I’d come back up and there he is standing. “Hey!”
I love Jerry, man he’s a punk. I love him, but he’s still my friend. I’m like, dude you were tenacious to say the least. “Hey can I give you a Bible?” “No, I have my Quran.” “Hey, I just want to tell you that Jesus loves you.” “Would you leave me alone?”
Going into my Senior year, I figured I found a way to shut him up. I said, “I’ll go with you to your church, if you come to the mosque.” This High School Senior, this 17 year old boy, named Jerry Tacket, walked to the mosque on Broad Street in Columbus, Ohio. Walked in with a Bible in his hand and a “Jesus Saves” t-shirt. That’s hardcore. That’s hardcore right there. That’s SECW straight. He walked in like this, “Hey, how ya doing, nice to meet ya, nice to meet ya.”
My father goes, “Ergun, who is this kid?” I went over to Tacket and I was like, “Alright.” I walked into the Stelzer Road Baptist Church, in Columbus, Ohio. It might as well have been Calvary Chapel, because I’d never seen it. Never held a Bible, never been in a worship service, never been around Christians. I sat in the back. I didn’t know that the secret of Baptists is that when you sit in the back that is where they all sit. Swhrooom, 20 of them all around me.
You’ll know Baptist in heaven, because Baptists will be the ones going through the gate asking for a bulletin. Because they all had their bulletins They had a hymnal, I didn’t know what a hymnal was. Had a Bible. Didn’t know what that was. I didn’t know why they wouldn’t sit still. Just like you people, stand, sit, turn around, hug a neck kiss a baby. It’s like jeserocise man. Yall won’t hold still.
I was trying to be anonymous sit in the back and there comes Tacket and there comes his friends and there comes all these youth. Four years, they had been going on me. They never gave up.
I chose this one.
I was in college eight months later.
I wanted to provide a long unedited clip. This was the closest one available. If this particular video series was about Ergun claiming to have immigrated to the United States as a teenager, this sermon also had that too.
My father’s name is Acar Mehmet Caner. I say it out loud, because just telling the story, you don’t get to do that often and most Muslims who are Muslims have never met a Murtad. I am a Murtad. I left Islam and became a believer in Jesus Christ.
My father was an Ulema in the mosque. An Ulema is a scholar. He was an architect by vocation. And when we came to America in 78, through Brooklyn, we settled in Columbus, Ohio to build mosques. That is exactly what my father did until the day he died, 1999.
We were not casual Muslims. We were not comfortable Muslims. We were the devout. We wore keffiyeh. We spoke in Arabic and Turkish. We read the Quran. We fasted 40 days during Ramadan. We lived by the rules of Halal and Haram, Mushbuded, dietary restrictions. We prayed five times a day, facing Mecca, [Speaking Arabic] doing our prayer time.
Still, the challenge was to provide one sermon where he said he converted his senior year on November 4, 1982,
November 4, 1982
and he said his brother converted after he went to college
I was in college eight months later. My phone rang. I discovered that both my brothers had gotten saved.
I think I accomplished my goal. The mental backflips that you have to do to explain why Ergun accidentally said all of these false claims in the same sermon are ridiculous.
The Pledge really has little to do with the topic, but since it is so contested, we will start there anyways. In 1892, Christian socialist and former Baptist minister, Francis Bellamy penned the following words to commemorate Columbus Day.
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible with Liberty and Justice for all."
Bellamy wished to unite the nation around the flag so that people would be inoculated against radicalism. The pledge was first recited October 12, 1892 by about 12 million school children to commemorate the 400th anniversary of the Columbus’s voyage.
In 1919, Washington became the first state to make the recitation of the pledge a mandatory part of their school curriculum. The Jehovah’s Witnesses were the first to object. They believed that government was a Satanic tool and the Pledge a salute to the Devil. In 1923, due to anti-immigrant anxiety, the first National Flag Conference in Washington D.C. voted to change the words "my flag" to "the Flag of the United States”. In 1924, they added the words “of America."(1)
In 1935, a group of Jehovah’s Witnesses organized with hundreds of Jehovah’s Witnesses school children choosing expulsion rather than participation in the Pledge. They sued and in 1938, a federal judge ruled in their favor, noting that the “totalitarian idea of forcing all citizens into one common mold of thinking” was not necessary to ensure the country’s safety and also curtailed the freedom of those who opposed it on the basis of “sincere religious convictions.”
1939 Porky Pig
In 1940, however, the Supreme Court agreed to hear an appeal of the case, and ultimately reversed the lower court’s original ruling by an 8 to 1 margin. National unity, it concluded, trumped individual liberty. In response, unified Americans tarred and feathered a Jehovah’s Witness in Wyoming, castrated another in Nebraska, and publicly beat others in Texas and Illinois as police and city officials watched refusing to interfere. Unity is not always a good thing.(3)
In January of 1942, The West Virginia State Board of Education mandated the pledge. Those who failed to comply with the compulsory recital were expelled. The parents of an expelled student were now in violation of compulsory education laws. Parents could face a fifty dollar fine and thirty days in jail.
Bellamy had prescribed what became known as the Bellamy Salute as the proper way to salute the American Flag. With the rise of Nazism, this salute had begun to make leaders across the country uncomfortable. The Bellamy salute was originally mandated in West Virginia, but they watered down their standard and allowed for a hand over the heart also known as the Lincoln salute. In June of 1942, Congress passed a law officially recognizing the pledge and mandating nationwide the Bellamy salute for the pledge. With the uproar from the Lincoln salute advocates, Congress amended the law that December to mandate the Lincoln salute.(4)
In West Virginia, the school had begun expelling Jehovah Witness children. Among those expelled were the seven children of the Barnette family. Unemployed, Walter Barnette had few financial resources. However the ACLU took his case. In 1943, Barnette won and the Supreme Court ruled.(5)(6) (7)(8)
If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.(9)
In 1948, Louis Bowman began adding “under God” after “nation” in the pledge. He claimed he was inspired by the phrase “under God” in Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address. However the phrase does not exist in Lincoln’s written address and must have been ad libbed if he ever said it at all. Bowman inspired the Sons of the American Revolution and the Daughters of the American Revolution to begin to use the modified pledge. Both organizations only contained members who could trace their ancestry back to soldiers in the American Revolution.
In the 1950’s, Reverend Dr. George MacPherson Docherty advocated for “under God” in the pledge, because communistic atheists would have no trouble reciting the pledge without it. He was not alone. As disdain for communism and atheism grew, more and more Americans began to favor the change.(10)
The Catholic Knights of Columbus long lobbied for God getting a mention in the Pledge, but it was a Presbyterian pulpit that made the difference. In February 7, 1954, Docherty preached a sermon at the New York Avenue Presbyterian Church. A recent convert to Presbyterianism, President Eisenhower was in attendance. Docherty’s sermon was on the Gettysburg Address and he advocated that “under God” should be in the pledge. After a talk with the Reverend, the President agreed and he had the legislation pushed through Congress. Signing the law on the Flag Day of 1954, Eisenhower remarked,(11)
"From this day forward, the millions of our school children will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural school house, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty. To anyone who truly loves America, nothing could be more inspiring than to contemplate this rededication of our youth, on each school morning, to our country's true meaning. Especially is this meaningful as we regard today's world. Over the globe, mankind has been cruelly torn by violence and brutality and, by the millions, deadened in mind and soul by a materialistic philosophy of life. Man everywhere is appalled by the prospect of atomic war. In this somber setting, this law and its effects today have profound meaning. In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource, in peace or in war."(12)
According to Bellamy’s daughter, Bellamy would most likely have disapproved of adding the words “under God”.(13)
The story of the Pledge of Allegiance is both relevant and beside the point to the topic of The National Day of Prayer. It is relevant, because there is an attempt to endow and enforce unity when division is the norm. It is beside the point, because the President does not annually recite the Pledge of Allegiance at the bequest of Congress. I hope that this was insightful. Please look at the sources below. Please like this video if you like it and subscribe for more videos.
I recently, reread my blog about Ergun's sermon at Canyon Creek Baptist last year. Also Hopefully My Last Ergun Caner Video has exceeded 1000 views this weekend. Finally, Ergun has launched another series of tweets against Pharisees as is his common teaching.
NEVER allow the devil to Rob ur Joy. NEVER let ur Past determine ur Future. NEVER Carry a Grudge. #TheNowOrNevers
— Ergun Mehmet Caner (@erguncaner) October 21, 2012
NEVER Refuse to Forgive. NEVER allow Bitterness to make u Cynical. NEVER Measure ur kids by their Grades. #TheNowOrNevers
— Ergun Mehmet Caner (@erguncaner) October 21, 2012
NEVER determine Worth by Cost. NEVER Answer Pharisees or Trolls. NEVER Apologize if ur Innocent. NEVER Question Motive.
— Ergun Mehmet Caner (@erguncaner) October 21, 2012
NEVER Blame Jesus for the Actions of His Followers. NEVER expect the Lost to Act like the Saved. NEVER hang w/Toxic People
— Ergun Mehmet Caner (@erguncaner) October 21, 2012
In the Canyon Creek sermon, Ergun does not give a year he was saved, but he says it was during his Senior year in High School (1983-84). According to him, his brothers were then saved the following year during Ergun's Freshman year in College (1984-85). The Does Emir Know? series focuses on how this version of events directly contradicts how the events are described in Unveiling Islam and elsewhere. In the future, the series will continue to give more examples of Ergun claiming his brothers were saved while he was in college.
Ergun has maintained from the beginning that the only thing, he is guilty of is making unintentional misstatements. However, watch Hopefully My Last Ergun Caner Video and more importantly watch the unedited sources. Listen to the Canyon Creek sermon. Tell me, what you think he was claiming.
Finally, Ergun tweeted, "Never question motive". I am going to take a stab at what he might have meant. Through hours of family arguments, I have learned that you can almost never know why someone did what they did. Even if you try to guess, your guess will be distorted by your positive or negative views of the person. Most likely, you have created a straw man and falsely misrepresented their position. Though I fail often, this is why I try to deal with what they did and not why they did it. Obviously, this is not totally feasible. When you say that a preacher telling a group of Marines that his "father had more than one wife at a time" is an intentional lie, you obviously deal somewhat with motive. The statement was not just false (everybody agrees on that), but the statement was intentionally so.* Still, as a general rule, one should avoid questioning motives. I don't know why Ergun lies about this stuff, but I know he does.
Like I have written elsewhere, I used to think I was almost done with making videos about Ergun. In February 2011, I uploaded Hopefully My Last Ergun Caner Video. I thought that I was done. Reasonable people would warn others about Ergun. Unfortunately this did not happen. Ergun returned to youtube in a vlog by a student, joking about becoming President of Egypt. I put up a video reminding people that he claimed he was educated in Egypt. I was told Ergun apologized, so I posted the entire text of Ergun's apology to youtube. I could go on, but I am still making videos about Ergun. Someone must warn people. Hopefully, I am a little wiser today and have learned how to spell "edited". :)
*I believe the statement was intentional for two reasons. One, he repeated it in the same speech, even twice in a couple sentences:
(3:10) My father had more than one wife at a time. As you know the Quran says in Surah four that you are allowed up to four wives. My father had three.
He then doubled down on the statement in the same speech.
(59:57) They have problems with immigration. I became an American citizen…uh…and stood up and took the vow and came in legally. We got stopped at the border, because my father had listed my mother as property. It’s true. And the guy said, “Your wife’s not property.” And he said, “of course she is.” Then he brought his “sisters” which is his other wives that’s how we bring in our other wives to America. We call them our “sisters”.
(33:20) We got stopped coming to America, I can’t believe I’m telling you this, but I’m gonna. We got stopped coming to America in 1978. My father listed my mother as property on the manifest. Acar Mehmet Caner listed Monica Inez Caner, my mom, as property. And by the way, he came to America like many Muslims do with many wives, but polygamy is not allowed. It’s called the Abraham lie. Who knows what I’m talking about? This is my sister, that’s right. So my father had, he said, ‘This is my wife, Halah, and these are my sisters'. It explains the last name.
Two, Ergun clearly knows that his father never had more than one wife at a time and his father never smuggled women across the border using the "Abraham lie".
