My Promise about Ergun Caner

I kept forgetting the exact details of what I pledged, so about a year ago, I decided to make a video.

If Ergun Caner and Norman Geisler will post a written apology/retraction of Ergun denying he lied to those marines, I will delete all videos about him. I will post a new one proclaiming his repentance. 1 2

When I made that pledge, I had not listened to as many of Ergun's sermons as I have now.  Before August 2010, I had listened to him in Convo, Campus Church, and Seminary Chapel.  I did not remember him making any of the statements that he supposedly made in the edited youtube videos.  Thanks to Jason Smathers and  Turretinfan, I became aware of the Marine videos. Even though, I was convinced that I could prove that Ergun lied, April 15, 2005, I did not think that I could prove that he lied any other day.  Even with prompting from Ergun defenders, I tried to stay with what I felt I could prove.  At the time, I thought Moses Model was done making Ergun videos.  Edited videos never convinced me and the only unedited sources I had were Marine videos on viddler.  There are only so many ways you can remix that material. In an argument with another seminary student on twitter I conceded that I would remove my videos if the two conditions above were met.

According to this seminary student, Ergun admitted he lied to a private group at Thomas Road, September 2010.  Supposedly, he told this private group that he did not wish to apologize publicly, because of how the bloggers would react.  The student urged me to take this anecdote as evidence of repentance and evidence that I biblically needed to remove my videos.

This was insufficient for many reasons.  First, the Marine videos had pressed on me the limitations of anecdotal evidence.  I needed more than an esoteric anecdote that Ergun did not even want me to know about.  The extremely amateur videos that I produced were sourced by hours of unedited video footage.  I did not rely on anecdotes to accuse Ergun of lying.  Reasonably, I should not rely on anecdotes to accuse Ergun of repenting.

Second, Ergun seemed to be trying to have it both ways.  After all, he wrote on the internet that he did not intentionally mislead people.  Internet magic meant that though he published once, it was read over and over.  Even though his printed lies were removed from his website, they were archived at SBCToday and viewed and copied several times. Even if Ergun repented privately at Thomas Road, it was/is more likely that someone believed his public printed lies about his honesty rather than heard about the private repentance of those same lies.

Third, Ergun's friends were not under the impression that he had needed to repent of lying.  A mutual  friend that I and Ergun share posted his "apology" to facebook.  Though I do not remember if it was after September, this person had posted Norman Geisler's defenses prior.  If Ergun was repentant, why did he not correct this person and Norman?  Why did he let them continue to maintain that he never lied?  May 2011, Marine evangelist Tim Lee said that the Liberty committee "never once found that he [Ergun] lied."  If Ergun repented, how did Tim not know?  In Ergun's shoes, I would not let my friends continue to defend me.

Since during the summer of 2011, I could only prove that Ergun lied April 15, 2005, I only pledged that Norman and Ergun must apologize for Ergun's lies that particular day to those Marines.  A year later, I can prove so much more and have listened to hours of Ergun's sermons (mostly cataloged by Turretinfan, BibleWheel, Babylonian Squirrel, and James White). A year later, Ergun still publicly maintains he did not intentionally mislead people. He continues to lie by letting his printed lies stand.  A year later, Ergun is still bearing false witness in churches.

Still a year later, (assuming that this seminary student will not release me from my word) I will remove all my Ergun Caner videos from my youtube channel if only Ergun and Norman will admit that Ergun lied that day to those Marines.  Ergun, if you want Moses Model to leave, all you need is a pint of honesty.

Update 6/14/14 

Last June, Ergun and I had the following email exchange about the post.  I promised to keep the exchange off the internet, but now since the exchange has been submitted as evidence in the lawsuit, I want to update the post to at least give Ergun's claims some air time.

5. On your blog you state an LU high official told you that Caner "privately repented at Thomas Road Baptist Church," but that he was afraid to do so publicly because of the bloggers. Caner would like the name of this “high official.” If a name is not provided, then please publicly state that the statement was not made truthfully.

I do not believe that I stated that any "high official" told me these things. This is what I wrote:

“According to this seminary student, Ergun admitted he lied to a private group at Thomas Road, September 2010. Supposedly, he told this private group that he did not wish to apologize publicly, because of how the bloggers would react. The student urged me to take this anecdote as evidence of repentance and evidence that I biblically needed to remove my videos.”

The seminary student was Phil Shouse who tweets under the handle @philshouse. He used Tweetdeck to extend his tweets so a lot of our conversation is lost. I remember him saying that Ergun repented at Thomas Road Baptist Church and was afraid to do so publicly because of the criticism he would receive from bloggers. This conversation was held publically on twitter May 24, 2011. Later, Phil blocked me on twitter for my criticism of Ergun.

I fully acknowledge that I maybe misremembered the rumor that I was told.  JD Hall has an email claiming that Ergun repented to the board, not at Thomas Road. Even though I never said "high official, Johnny Hunt would count as a "high official".  Also if you read the post, I was very dismissive of the anecdote.

A couple of things need to also be noted.  To the best of my knowledge, I have never misquoted Ergun, but here Ergun misquoted me.  Further, Ergun demands the benefit of the doubt for all of his factual statements that were self-contradictory, but he asks me to "publicly state that the statement was not made truthfully".  If Ergun will not give me the benefit of the doubt, why is it reasonable for me to give him the benefit of the doubt?

Further Ergun has slandered me now multiple times in this lawsuit.  The most glaring example is last April when he said that I worked for him and he fired me.  This week, he now claims that he had no prior knowledge of me before filing the lawsuit.  Given how much back and forth, Ergun and I have had about my relationship with him, both statements cannot reasonably be made truthfully.  Given that they are the definition of self contradictory, together they cannot both be held honestly.

Ergun's self righteous baloney that preaches do as I say, but not as I do; is the definition of hypocrisy.  I honestly wonder what faith that someone can hold that they still consider Ergun an honest man.