Communication

Given the fact that Ergun has filed a lawsuit, he now has the ability to subpoena e-mails, facebook messages and any other communications. Accordingly, I would encourage you not to send any messages unless you are comfortable with Ergun reading them.

Update: In the initial settlement discussions Ergun demanded all my private communications about him along with non-disparagement agreements from myself and my wife and children.  I refused.  At the time there was about five more people that Ergun was threatening to sue.  I wrote this post in order to keep well meaning people from being sued or otherwise retaliated at by Ergun for their thoughts about his honesty in sermons and lectures. Ultimately Ergun lost and in exchange for a settlement Ergun has agreed not to sue Jason and I for anything that happened prior to 2015.

Warning these opinions are clearly Satanic and demonic

I have argued that Ergun claimed to have been educated in Beirut before he came to America in 1978.  This comes from my demonic reading of the following quote:

I hated you. That may be harsh, but as Dr. Hayes told you, my madrasa – my training center – was in Beirut before I came to America. We came as missionaries to you. My father was a muezzin, the one who does the prayer in the mosque. Five times a day he would climb to the top of a minaret and begin, [different language] and he would do the call to prayer. He was also an architect so we built mosques. And so we came to America – it was ’78. Ayatollah Khomeini had said, we will not stop until America is an Islamic nation and we came and we continue to come.

Ergun Caner has youtube videos removed for violating copyright

Ergun Caner has hired someone at the Gibbs Firm to challenge youtube videos for copyright violations.  Thirty-four of my videos were challenged and less than ten of my videos critical of Ergun were left.

Gibbs included in the challenge one of the videos that was obtained by Jason Smathers from Marine Corp Air Station New River.  Given my limited understanding of copyright law and the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), I do not believe that you can legally claim copyright on a video that was obtained by FOIA.

Who is David Gibbs III?

Attorney David C. Gibbs III is the President and General Counsel of the National Center for Life and Liberty, a ministry organization that defends life and liberty freedoms nationwide. Mr. Gibbs speaks regularly to audiences in churches and conferences while also litigating cases as a trial attorney. He hosts the weekly radio program Law Talk Live on the Moody Radio Network and has authored five books including Fighting for Dear Life and Understanding the Constitution.

Attorney Gibbs graduated from Duke Law School and manages the Gibbs Law Firm with offices in Dallas, Texas; St. Petersburg, Florida; and Washington, D.C. He is admitted to practice before the United States Supreme Court and numerous federal circuit and district courts nationwide. He has also been admitted to the State Bars of Florida, Minnesota, Colorado, North Dakota, Ohio, Texas, Tennessee, Michigan, and the District of Columbia.

Attorney Gibbs was the lead attorney in the Terri Schiavo case representing the parents as they fought to save the life of their daughter. This case went before the United States Supreme Court twice in ten days. Mr. Gibbs is a frequent spokesperson on radio and television having appeared on many major news and talk programs .

Attorney Gibbs believes: “If it’s wrong, fight it. If it’s right, fight for it.” His life verse is Matthew 25:40, where Jesus said, “Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these, my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”

The return email to a Dgaines, so the person actually making challenges on youtube is probably an employee at Gibbs' law firm.

I invite you all to watch this lecture that Ergun and David do not want you to see. If you click on the video, on the viddler site there is a download link where you can obtain the flash file and distribute it.



Update: The embedded video went dead for some reason.  Jason Smathers has recently uploaded it also to YouTube.
 

Update: Ergun ended up suing both Jason and I for the video above as Count I against me and Count III against Jason.  Jason was also sued for another Marine lecture, "Ergun Caner at the Base Theater", as Count IV.  Of the thirty-four videos that Ergun challenged, only two were unedited.  The other thirty-two were clear edited fair use criticisms.  They were similar, but with better sourcing, to the videos that Peter Lumpkins had made about Al Mohler, Mark Driscol, JD Hall and James White.

Before my channel was taken down, I ended up only challenging one other video in addition to Count I.  Count II was a video, a little over a minute long, entitled, "Ergun Caner educated in Cairo, Egypt".  Count II was ultimately dismissed, because Ergun intentionally never attempted to register the copyright. Ergun boasted that the suit was about "unedited videos" when 88% of the videos he challenged on youtube were edited fair use criticisms.  25% of the total videos he filed suit over and 50% of the videos he filed suit against me in particular were not unedited. 

Youtube has restored my channel, but given the struggles of the Caner family, I have removed most of my content about Ergun.  However, Ergun's lawsuit, though a copyright suit, was ultimately a civil rights issue.  He attacked the principles of "fair use" in the First Amendment and the principles behind Freedom of Information Act.  Therefore both Count I and Count II will remain online, but please think twice before sharing.

A Cessationist theology rant

This week, I have been looking for the source of a particular quote on cessationism.

A Cessationist theology, mindset and expectation will become self fulfilling.Clark H. Pinnock
— Jon Tyson (@JonTyson) May 28, 2013

It took me a while, but I found it.  I do not have time to source this little post, but enough effort went into the search for a source that I do want to comment. 

Source

Pinnock is right.  The Counter-Reformation was an age of miracles.  The supernatural exploits of Priests and Catholic missionaries were normal post reformation.  Warning, any general statement about millions of people over the vast geography and ethnicities of Europe is probably too specific.  Still, reformers tended to destroy relics and holy sites while Catholics tended to try to promote what was left.  A Catholic missionary would heal the sick, cast out demons, and perhaps even raise the dead.  All of this tended to cast doubt in mainstream Protestantism for the validity of most miracles.  (Wow that statement was too specific.) Pinnock is right that frowning on miracles largely started as a way to discount Catholic missionaries and Catholicism as a whole.

Ultimately, I have found strength in some classic Christian (yes, Catholic too) tests for the supernatural.  Assuming that there will be more false positives for demonic activity than there will be real demonic activity, some developed a series of tests. 

1. Levitation - Can they fly or make other things fly?
2. Clairvoyance - Do they know things that they cannot possibly know? Can they find my car keys?
3. Speaking in tongues - Demons should know other languages than the native tongue of the oppressed/possessed.
4. Supernatural strength - Contortions or lifting heavy objects

Some of my friends just need to look into people's eyes or see a feat of strength.  I want at least two evidences or hopefully three.   Likewise, if your "word of knowledge", "flag", or prophecy can be replicated by psychics, mentalists, and astrologers, I am going to be skeptical.  Just because you say that it is from God, doesn't mean that I am not going to need proof.  Also, you dream about 14 times a week, about 56 times a month, and about 730 times a year.  I can buy that one or more of them seemed to predict the future and seemed to be from God.  Still, unlikely things happen everyday, so please don't mind my questions. 

The first step to convince me that you spoke in tongues is to get a tape recording of the tongue and the translation.

By having these standards, I am limiting my religious experiences. I don't think that gifts of the Holy Spirit or miracles have ceased, just that most of what is out there is false positives. I don't know if Pinnock would have called this a self-fulfilling prophecy or not. I just want to see some proof.

Me without you

Today, I came across this quote from a fictional rabbi.

Andy. You want an easy answer, go Jesus, go Allah, go atheist. I’m a Jew. My obligation is to wrestle, to engage. It’s not to just blindly believe. That’s how I see it.

I agree that atheism seems like an easy answer.  However, Jesus has been anything but.   Recently, I attended an Awana graduation ceremony.  Their theme song for the older kids was, Liberty Alumni, Toby Mac's "Me without you".  Personally, I cannot stand that song.

I'd be packin' my bags when I need to stay
I'd be chasin' every breeze that blows my way
I'd be building my kingdom just to watch it fade away
It's true

Honestly, I have been told by many that pray for me that I should be packing my bags and I don't need to stay. Earlier this week, a woman who believes that God sometimes tells her the contents of her mailbox, told me God doesn't want me to get comfortable where I am.  Still, likewise some are convinced that I need to stay.

I try not to chase every breeze, but many are convinced that I follow the wrong currents.  While devoted to Christ, I chose a seminary where the former Dean thinks that I am going to hell.  When you sign up who predicts that?  With God things do not seem easier, but like most Christians, I converted before adulthood and don't know how my life would be any different without Christ.

The song sounds frustrating and trite. Given everything, where I need to stay is still as much of a mystery as the contents of my mailbox.  After proving over and over again that I have a lot to learn, sometimes I wonder what I would be without Christ and if I would be better off.

PS - Many have told me that jealousy motivates my blog, tweets, and youtube videos.  There have only really been a couple of people that I have coveted.  Langworthy is one, but for a strange reason.  The guy was a serial child molester and the longest he did not work or volunteer with a church was a year.  It is frustrating to see a serial child molester have such a ministry. 

Judge me by my size, do you?

*Insert childlike beaming grins*

The Gospel According to Ergun Caner

5 Point Pagans Snort Like Girls.

I remember there was some sort of Seminary event, right after Ergun became Dean of the Seminary, maybe sometime during the following semester. It must have been a Seminary Chapel, before Ergun combined them with Ministry Chapels. If my memory serves, he only preached one before the combination.

Ergun asked us whether if we were not saved, how many of us would still be good people?  Some of us said we probably still would.  Ergun proclaimed, "Not me". According to him, he just wasn't that type of guy.  If he had never converted, meanness and evil would froth forth.  Almost a decade later, I have been wondering if his conversion did not make that big of difference. 

I have often wondered over the last few years whether I would convert as an adult if I had never converted as an adolescent.  Sometimes given stuff like this, the answer is "no".  Remember, Ergun believes that I am going to hell.  He also claims that his mission is to win me to Christ.  Pardon me if I admit that it is not working.  

PS - Perhaps, I have treated Ergun like he treats others, but I don't think I have.

Christian Etitquette on Social Media

I have been asking around lately trying to get people's viewpoints on Christian social media etiquette.  For some there are major faux pas.  I'll deal with them in no particular order.

Christians are not allowed to judge.  

11Do not speak against one another, brothers and sisters. He who speaks against a fellow believer or judges a fellow believer speaks against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but its judge. 12But there is only one who is lawgiver and judge – the one who is able to save and destroy. On the other hand, who are you to judge your neighbor?. ~ James 4:11

1“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2For by the standard you judge you will be judged, and the measure you use will be the measure you receive. 3Why do you see the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to see the beam of wood in your own? 4Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye,’ while there is a beam in your own? 5You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. 6Do not give what is holy to dogs or throw your pearls before pigs; otherwise they will trample them under their feet and turn around and tear you to pieces. ~ Matthew 7:1-6

37“Do not judge, and you will not be judged; do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38Give, and it will be given to you: A good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be poured into your lap. For the measure you use will be the measure you receive.”

39He also told them a parable: “Someone who is blind cannot lead another who is blind, can he? Won’t they both fall into a pit? 40A disciple is not greater than his teacher, but everyone when fully trained will be like his teacher. 41Why do you see the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to see the beam of wood in your own? 42How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me remove the speck from your eye,’ while you yourself don’t see the beam in your own? You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

43“For no good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit, 44for each tree is known by its own fruit. For figs are not gathered from thorns, nor are grapes picked from brambles. 45The good person out of the good treasury of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasury produces evil, for his mouth speaks from what fills his heart. ~ Luke 6:37-45

These are the basic proof texts that one is not allowed to judge or criticize people (at least other Christians).  First, Jesus said in both Matthew and Luke that the point of seeing the beam in your eye is to more clearly remove the speck from your brother's eye.   This sounds like judging or criticizing to me.  You must judge that there is a speck in someone else's eye even while ignoring the beam in your own.

Likewise Jesus in Matthew talked about "dogs" and "pigs" and what is "holy".  Determining who is the "dog" or "pig" or what is sacred, involves judgement calls.  In Luke, "each tree is known by its own fruit".   "The good person out of the good treasury of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasury produces evil, for his mouth speaks from what fills his heart."  Assessing a tree by its fruit is judging people.  These two gospel passages most likely taught how not to judge rather than to not judge.  Introspection is much better than looking outward at what others are doing.

Likewise, James had the same focus.  More judging means less doing.  If we interpret scripture with scripture, James did not say not to remove the speck from another's eye, but that judging is not one's primary concern.

Let's get to the practical matter.  We judge people everyday.  Some of us are legal mandatory reporters of abuse even when we are outside of work.  If we fail to report abuse there are legal penalties.  The state requires that we judge.  Likewise many of us report crimes to the police, regardless of the religious affiliation of the person that we are reporting.  I know I am going to pull a little common sense theology, but these verses did not teach do not call the police, but nobody is saying they did.

Likewise,  someone who believes it is a sin to judge, judging someone for judging, borders on absurdity.  What ends up happening, in my experience, is that people play semantic games.  One can criticize someone, but they cannot "attack" someone.  One is not judging, they are speaking the truth in love.  I fail to see the difference.

Christians should love each other

 34“I give you a new commandment – to love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. 35Everyone will know by this that you are my disciples – if you have love for one another.” ~ John 13:34-35

True, Christians should love one another, but I am not convinced of what some find loving.  My biggest beef with this one is that there is this whole orthopraxy developing on who one should block on twitter.  Basically it boils down to if we criticize one another that is not loving and the world will think we are no different.  However, some teach that if we block one another, the world will still know that we are His disciples.  I don't get it.  Maybe this is just personal preference, but I find blocking someone on twitter or facebook less loving than criticism.  

My apology to Darrell Strahan ‏

Recently Darrell Strahan was kind enough to unblock me on twitter after I chided the idea of a ministry reconciliation when I am blocked.  I mistakenly skimmed his tweets and thought that he was still claiming that I was a Muslim.

There is no better way to say this than I was wrong.  If I had read further down, I would have realized that he was not only no longer claiming this, but he even mentioned that he had apologized. 

I was wrong.  I am sorry. 

PS - Some of my relevant tweets will be deleted.

Win my soul for the Lord

You should see the depressed looks on people's faces when I tell that Ergun claims that LU found he never lied

I don't know which bothers me worse, that Ergun thinks that I am going to hell in a hand basket or

that Ergun would rather block me than try to save my soul.


I don't know if Ergun has figured out who I am.  Google changing youtube has certainly given him ample ways to discover my identity.  If he has, I wonder if his attempts to evangelize me are similar to his attempts to evangelize other unsaved people that he knows. 

So here is the challenge to all those people who think that I am a hell bound sinner. Try to witness to me.  Share your faith.  If you know who I am, invite me to your church.  Try some relational evangelism or at least some door to door.

Quite honestly, if I am not saved, I don't know how to be saved or get saved.

Ergun is continuing to claim that he immigrated as a teenager with a polygamous father

I had an interesting discussion on twitter the other day with a supporter of Ergun's.  This supporter assures me that to the best of his knowledge, Ergun is continuing to claim that he immigrated as a teenager with a polygamous father.  This supporter stands by his Christian brother's word.

I am tired and want to go to bed, so for why this is not true let me refer you to my mother smuggling series.  Still, it is refreshing for someone to say, sure he claimed to those Marines that he immigrated to America as a teenager.  There was no misstatement.



Correction - The person involved in the above twitter discussion has informed me that they are not a "fan" of Ergun's, but a brother in Christ and a supporter. Changes have been made to reflect more accurately their position.

I've been working for the devil all the live long day

Can't you hear that whistle blowing? This is normal for many people that I've known and Ergun is no exception.  Say "Pharisees" are those that criticize other Christians and then criticize other Christians for being Pharisees.  Here we have don't accuse the brethren and then he accuses some of the brethren.

Oddly enough two lines come to mind.

"You know, that's a typical lawyer's trick - accusing the accuser." - EK Hornbeck - Inherit the Wind - 1960 played by Gene Kelly

"I will step outside the church if that's what needs to be done, 'til the door should shut behind me! I will do what needs to be done, though I'm damned to Hell! You should understand that, or you will mistake me." - Those lines from Sister Aloysius Beauvier played by Meryl Streep in the movie "Doubt" ring in my ears from time to time.

If Ergun would abide by his own rules, it would be one thing.  However, he seems to expect everyone else to operate with kid gloves while he denounces them from twitter and the pulpit.

How can Ergun say things like this and not be working for Satan?
Easy, he doesn't consider them brethren.

My Basic Rules for a Twitter Argument

Here is my quick guide to twitter arguments.

1. Assess if the argument is even worth having on a 140 character format like twitter. If you have to look up the spelling of Androgen, look for another format.
2. Assess the possibility of winning. If neither of you will change your minds, it is probably more trollish to start something on twitter.
3. See if the twitter account is satirical or anonymous. It is generally best to avoid those.
4. Know if the person is likely to respond. If not, venting can be fun. 
5. Avoid multiple replies.  Try to get everything into one reply to one reply ratio.  When you start sending more than one reply, the other person is likely to reply to both and then you have two threads.  The more threads you have going on at the same time, the more convoluted the argument can become to both of you.
6. Reply to as few threads as possible.  Do your best to keep the communication clear and concise.  Not replying to a thread will end that thread and allow you to focus on the important ones.
7. If these fights get repetitive, think about writing a quick concise 140 or less reply to FAQs.  This way you will already be prepared.

Correction 20:51 5-20-13: I know most of the views to  this post have been to see me write "righting" instead of "writing". :)

Ergun Caner Has Two Daddies

Sometimes Ergun's lies surprise even me. In this video, we see him call his imam, "my father." We see him continue to misidentify everyone in the picture, but himself. He even names two family members he doesn't even have. Then he says that this picture that was taken in Turkey rather than Ohio. All of these factual statements that were self contradictory, Ergun maintains were unintentional misstatements that happen to every preacher. If all preachers are preaching this kind of nonsense, it does not give me much confidence in my own minister.

Complete Transcript

This was my father, the one I spoke of yesterday, Acar Mehmet Caner. I am the second from him, that is one of my half sisters, one of my half brothers, and one other of my father’s children. I am the knock kneed child sitting there with my father. This was in Turkey. This was in Istanbul.

1979, Ergun Caner with his imam and other children

Ergun now claims that almost all of that was an unintentional misstatement, just like most preachers make. Man that inspires a lot of confidence in my minister. Welcome to another video on Mother Smuggling.

Around 2004, someone uploaded this picture to Ergun’s website with the caption, “Dr. Caner in the Mosque with his father”. Now, if my memory serves

Ergun couldn’t upload pictures to his own website in 2005 when he came to the Seminary. Since this caption probably wasn’t written by Ergun himself, one might think that it was a clerical error. However this brings us to his statement in 2006.

This was my father, the one I spoke of yesterday

Muslims live in enclaves. We travel together, because this is necessary for us. It is necessary for us, because we live differently, dress differently, look differently. I was the oldest. My father brought his wives with him. Yes, polygamous Muslims do come to America. We call it the Abraham lie. They say, “This is my wife, and this is my sister.”

Erguncaner.com in 2004

This man is not Ergun’s father. This is Ergun’s father. Acar did not have grey hair when Ergun was this young. The man in this picture is Ergun’s imam as seen posing in this picture with Ergun’s father.

OK, you might be asking yourself, if I am being too picky. Perhaps all of this was a collection of misstatements. Well, let us continue.

I am the second from him, that is one of my half sisters,

Acar with his three sons

This young lady who is taller than Ergun is not his half-sister. Ergun is thirteen years older than his oldest half-sister. When this picture was most likely taken she was still in diapers. Besides, even though his half-sisters were born in 1979 and 1980, years before his disownment in 1982, Unveiling Islam states that Ergun Caner never met his half-sisters till 1999 at his father’s death.

OK, now you might be saying, OK, he mislabeled the imam on the website and in this sermon and he misidentified a girl as his half-sister, but could all this be unintentional misstatements? Well, again, let us continue.

one of my half brothers

Ergun and his two brothers

This young man is not Ergun’s half-brother. Ergun has no half-brothers. Don’t believe me? Norman Geisler said the following in his defense of Ergun.

7. Ergun claimed his father had many wives and two half-brothers and two half-sisters, but there is no evidence for the half-brothers.

Response: Ergun’s father did have two wives, having divorced the first one. He had three sons by his first wife (Ergun and his two brothers). So, Ergun has two full brothers and two step-sisters (from his father’s second wife). While speaking quickly on one occasion, he mistakenly called his brothers his “half” brothers. This is hardly evidence of an attempt to embellish or deceive. After all, he had the right number of each sibling, and he didn’t claim to have ten brothers or sisters!

This gentleman is neither Erdem or Emir as you can see from this picture. Hopefully by now the errors are beginning to add up to you and you can see that these were not accidental. Well, let us move on to one more.

and one other of my father’s children

Acar only had five children and according to Ergun these are four of them. Seriously, just like the previous child this is not one of Ergun’s half-brothers or brothers. His half-brothers do not exist and neither of his brothers had dark curly hair.

Well, moving on.

I am the knock kneed child sitting there with my father. This was in Turkey. This was in Istanbul.

According to Ergun’s parents’ separation agreement, Ergun was forbidden to leave the country as of April 1978. He couldn’t even be taken out of Ohio without notifying the Franklin County Court. This is important. Let me tell you why.

Ergun no longer claims that man was his father. This was simply an unintentional misstatement. He no longer claims that his father was polygamous. This was simply an unintentional misstatement. Ergun no longer claims that young woman was his half-sister. This was simply an unintentional misstatement. Ergun no longer claims that this young man was his half-brother. This was simply an unintentional misstatement. Ergun no longer claims that this other young man was one of his father’s other children. This was simply an unintentional misstatement.

Ergun also no longer claims that this picture was taken in Istanbul or anywhere else in Turkey for that matter. In 2008, Ergun posted this picture to his facebook account. In 2004, the caption on his website read, “Dr. Caner in the Mosque with his father”. Yet, in 2008 the facebook caption read, “1979 - In the Mosque. An Imam is like a pastor - I am the second kid from the left.”

If this picture was taken in 1979, after Ergun was forbidden to leave the country, this could not be

in Turkey. This was in Istanbul

It is important to point out that this is what Ergun often means by the word, misstatement. It is often not one detail in a sentence that he has presented incorrectly. Many times it is a several sentences in a row with no basis in reality.

How does Ergun explain all these errors about a simple childhood picture? Well, Ergun speaks hundreds of times a year. Errors creep in. Many times, he called this man his father. Many times, he called this girl his half-sister. Many times he called these boys his half-brothers. Many times he said this picture was taken in Istanbul. Given sufficient retellings eventually all of these errors were eventually made at the same time coincidentally the day after he called his father a “polygamous Muslim” who smuggled his wives across the border calling them his sisters.

Or maybe he just lied.

Thank you for watching.

Thank you to the original research done by Dr. James White who made this video possible.

Music

"Haunted Forest" by soundcloud.com

Cited Links

Tim Lee's statements
http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/05/after-11-months-liberty-university.html

September 25, 2010 article where Ergun says he did not lie.
http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2010/sep/25/caner-defends-background-bristol-speech-ar-524525/

The unedited Marine videos on Viddler
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jsin/videos/2/
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jsin/videos/1/

Unedited Marine Videos on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxmIMR1LNos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpDm3Z9tI-M

Ergun Caner's Apology
http://sbctoday.com/2010/02/25/statement-from-dr-ergun-caner/

Norman Geisler's statements
http://www.normangeisler.net/articles/ErgunCaner/

PS - The sources of these videos are not online. However, an extended context can be found here.

Exonerated Series

Tweet

I am working on the fifth video in my series on Ergun's claims that his father was a "polygamous Muslim".  There are still more videos to come after that one.

Here is the latest one.

Ergun Caner calls his father the "p" word

When Ergun's lies were originally coming out, a defender of Ergun was like sure he said that his father had "other wives", had "many wives", that his mother "found out late in her marriage that my father was married to more than one woman", had "more than one wife at a time", had three wives at the same time, smuggled his extra wives across the border calling them his sisters, but did Ergun ever use the word "polygamous"? Well here we have him saying that his father was a "polygamous Muslim". If all of these were just misstatements, what are the odds that I can produce more examples?

Transcript


OK, let me explain. No there is too much. Let me sum up. In Sweden, Acar Caner married Ergun’s mother. Ergun was born first in 1966. Erdem was born second in 1968. Then they picked up the family and moved to Ohio where Emir was born in 1970.

The marriage was troubled so Acar moved out around 1975. The divorce was finalized around 1978. Shortly thereafter, Acar remarried. He had two daughters from this second marriage.

No one disputes this. However, I have provided several examples of Ergun publicly misleading people to the contrary.

Example number one, in 2003, at a Chicago church, Ergun said the following.

My mother found out late in her marriage that my father was married to more than one woman. I don’t want anyone else to deal with this.

Example Number two, in 2005, Ergun said the following while lecturing Marines at Marine Corp Air Station New River

My father had more than one wife at a time. As you know the Quran says in Surah four that you are allowed up to four wives. My father had three.

Example Number three, in the same lecture, Ergun doubled down.

We got stopped at the border, because my father had listed my mother as property. It’s true. And the guy said, “Your wife’s not property.” And he said, “of course she is.” Then he brought his “sisters” which is his other wives that’s how we bring in our other wives to America. We call them our “sisters”.

Example Number four, a couple of months later, Ergun went back to the church in Chicago and said the following.

I came over during the Iranian crisis. Ayatollah Khomeini had taken control. The Shaw of Iran had been kicked out. And Ayatollah Khomeini said this, “We will not stop until America is an Islamic nation.” So in 1978, my father, my mother, my two brothers, my father’s other wives, and my half-brothers and sisters came to this country. How is it that Muslims can come to this country with other wives? Well it is called the Abraham lie. “This is my sister.” It explains our last names being the same. And so he would say, “This is my sisters.”

Remember coming to America in 1978, his father being married to many wives at the same time, his father smuggling these wives across the border as sisters, having half brothers…all of this Ergun maintains that he never meant to say. Supposedly he never meant for people to believe any of those things.

Well here we come to example number five, September 2006 at an apologetics conference in California. Warning, this clip will be longer for greater context and irony.

It isn’t just, it is a rare person who gets led to Christ by reading a book, by reading a testimony. Those things are great supplements, but almost inevitably it needs the human touch, a Christian, a sold out, a born again, a blood bought, Jesus loving, devil shoving, Christian, who is willing to, with boldness and with heart, rise up and tell them, “I know your answer.” “I know the one for whom you’re seeking.

Paul lives this out in front of us. He begins with what I call authentic Christianity. And you can see it beginning there in verse two, when it says he speaks to them in the Hebrew dialect and they all got quiet.

And he doesn’t begin by going, “I am better than all of thee.” No, Paul begins by saying, “Yall know me.” “Yall know me.” That’s authentic Christianity. That’s transparent Christianity. It doesn’t point to us. It points to Him. He even in the middle of it goes, “Those men there, the council and the elders, the Sanhedrin, the leadership, they know that I used to be the hunter”. “I was Dog the Bounty Hunter and now I stand with those I used to hunt.” “I was holding their coats when they were stoning Stephen.”

With transparency, with painful authenticity, the apostle Paul says, “Yall know me.” “It is not about me.” “It is about the one I met.” One of the things that holds us back from revolutionizing the world sometimes is us. We get all caught up in who we are and fight over things we shouldn’t fight over and we argue over things that are not necessarily the important points of the gospel. We argue about what we should wear in church whether the choir ought to have robes and neglecting the fact that there are people outside doors of that church on the way to a devil’s hell and they don’t care what color the robes are.

I hated you. That may be harsh, but as Dr. Hayes told you, my madrasa – my training center – was in Beirut before I came to America. We came as missionaries to you. My father was a muezzin, the one who does the prayer in the mosque. Five times a day he would climb to the top of a minaret and begin, [different language] and he would do the call to prayer. He was also an architect so we built mosques. And so we came to America – it was ’78. Ayatollah Khomeini had said, we will not stop until America is an Islamic nation and we came and we continue to come.

Anything I knew about Christianity, I learned through misconception and caricature. I knew nothing about you, had never been in a church, had never been outside of the mosque. Anything I knew about you, I learned through either television, hyperbole, gossip, but I did know this. I hated you and I thought you hated me.

Muslims live in enclaves. We travel together, because this is necessary for us. It is necessary for us, because we live differently, dress differently, look differently. I was the oldest. My father brought his wives with him. Yes, polygamous Muslims do come to America. We call it the Abraham lie. They say, “This is my wife, and this is my sister.”

And everybody goes aren’t they so family oriented. Yeah. And we moved from Brooklyn, New York near the Verrazano Bridge to Toledo, Ohio, Toledo, Ohio to Columbus, Ohio and it was there where my father built the mosque working with the other Muslims.

Now it is different than the way we do it here in America. It is different than the way the church does it. Yall know how we do it in the church when we are going to build something? We get together and we get a slogan. Somebody gets a slogan and we gather the people together and we show them a blueprint. Then somebody draws a thermometer.

Did you hear that?

Muslims live in enclaves. We travel together, because this is necessary for us. It is necessary for us, because we live differently, dress differently, look differently. I was the oldest. My father brought his wives with him. Yes, polygamous Muslims do come to America. We call it the Abraham lie. They say, “This is my wife, and this is my sister.”

And everybody goes aren’t they so family oriented. Yeah. And we moved from Brooklyn, New York near the Verrazano Bridge to Toledo, Ohio, Toledo, Ohio to Columbus, Ohio and it was there where my father built the mosque…

No one disagrees with what he said,

I was the oldest. My father brought his wives with him. Yes, polygamous Muslims do come to America. We call it the Abraham lie. They say, “This is my wife, and this is my sister.”

The contention is with what he meant.

Ergun wants you to believe that when he referred to his father as a “polygamous Muslim”,

My father brought his wives with him. Yes, polygamous Muslims do come to America.

he had no intention that you would believe that his father was a “polygamous Muslim”.

My father brought his wives with him. Yes, polygamous Muslims do come to America.

Remember Ergun concedes that his father was not polygamous, he and his defenders simply argue that he never intentionally said anything to the contrary. Stay tuned to Moses Model to hear more examples of Ergun saying things to the contrary. Remember shares, likes, and subscriptions really help get the word out. Also, any critiques and recommendations are welcome.

Sources

Some of these links may be broken.  If so email me for unedited sources. 

"20 Things You Must Know to Witness to a Muslim" - Ashburn Baptist Church - Chicago, Il - March 2, 2003 Link

"Base Theater" - Marine Corp Air Station New River - New River, NC - April 15, 2005 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpDm3Z9tI-M

"Dr. Ergun Caner and the Teen Choir and Orchestra from the First Baptist Church of Jacksonville, Florida - A" - Ashburn Baptist Church - Chicago, Il - June 3, 2005 Link

Music

"Haunted Forest" by soundcloud.com
"A year ago" by Pixt http://dig.ccmixter.org/dig?user=Pitx
"Handyman's Lament" by Josh Woodward from joshwoodward.com
Sound Effects provided by soundbible.com and shockwave-sound.com

Cited Links

Tim Lee's statements
http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/05/after-11-months-liberty-university.html

September 25, 2010 article where Ergun says he did not lie.
http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2010/sep/25/caner-defends-background-bristol-speech-ar-524525/

The unedited Marine videos on Viddler
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jsin/videos/2/
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jsin/videos/1/

Unedited Marine Videos on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxmIMR1LNos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpDm3Z9tI-M

Ergun Caner's Apology
http://sbctoday.com/2010/02/25/statement-from-dr-ergun-caner/

Norman Geisler's statements
http://www.normangeisler.net/articles/ErgunCaner/

VES Statement Regarding Dr. Ergun Caner

VES Statement Regarding Dr. Ergun Caner

Thank you for your inquiry regarding Dr. Ergun Caner. As far as VES is concerned, our policy regarding adjunct professors is to base any disciplinary decision on the professor’s home school investigation and conclusions on moral and/or theological matters such as these. Liberty University has conducted an exhaustive independent investigation of these charges and issued their conclusions in a June 29, 2010 statement as follows:

After a thorough and exhaustive review of Dr. Ergun Caner’s public statements, a committee consisting of four members of Liberty University’s Board of Trustees has concluded that Dr. Caner has made factual statements that are self-contradictory. However, the committee found no evidence to suggest that Dr. Caner was not a Muslim who converted to Christianity as a teenager, but, instead, found discrepancies related to matters such as dates, names and places of residence. Dr. Caner has cooperated with the board committee and has apologized for the discrepancies and misstatements that led to this review. Dr. Caner’s current contractual term as Dean of Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary expires on June, 30, 2010. Dr. Caner will no longer serve as Dean of Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary. The university has offered, and Dr. Caner has accepted, an employment contract for the 2010-2011 academic year. Dr. Caner will remain on the faculty of Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary as a professor.

 Since Dr. Caner’s conversion testimony was validated, he was not charged with any legal, moral, mal-intent, or theological heresy, only “misstatements” (common to all speakers, for which he has apologized), VES will be retaining Dr. Caner as a valued adjunct faculty member and regular speaker at VES conferences. In light of these findings, VES considers Dr. Caner exonerated from all charges.

Sincerely,

Veritas Evangelical Seminary

Murrieta, California

July 1, 2010

Foolishly it is the official statement of Veritas Evangelical Seminary that during the following lectures given at Marine Corp Air Station New River, Ergun never intentionally claimed that he came to America in 1978 with a polygamist father.





Listen for yourself.

HT:  Ephesians 5:11

Ergun Caner preaches in Arabic at the Dome of the Rock

I saw this tweet by Ergun from his most recent Israel trip and I could not help but think about his claim to have preached in Arabic in the Dome of the Rock.  Also, he has claimed to have come to Israel twice before the age of 16.

The first clip is from Ashburn Baptist Church, September 2005.  The second clip is from Thomas Road's Super Conference 2005, October 2005.  The third clip is from Liberty's Israel Trip, February 2010. Email me for any of the unedited sources.

I think at this point I am pretty well convinced that Ergun does not have the ability to preach in Arabic.  However, there were tons of witnesses to these Arabic sermons.  I would like to hear from them.

Below is my only Arabic video.  Also, James White attempted to translate some Ergun's Arabic.  Also, I find that there is almost nothing that Ergun has said that Mohammed Khan did not know about before me. 

Member of Prestonwood says he was kicked out for questions

All of the normal caveats here follow. We only have one side of the story here, but I thought that this was pressing enough to highlight.  This video was posted yesterday by crtynes77.

I was sitting on the hood of my car patiently waiting to ask Mike Buster why he cancelled our meeting when 3 security guards came out of the building, including the director of Security. The Dir got right in my personal space as you can see and I was lucky I pressed record properly as I couldn't see the screen. I missed the first minute or so of the conversation. This is unbelievable!!

 He then goes on to explain this in the comment section.

The Dir of Ops at Prestonwood called shortly thereafter and threatened action against me if I attempted to contact anyone at Prestonwood or even stepped foot on campus. When I asked if I was allowed to attend church, he simply reiterated, "You are not to step foot on Prestonwood campus again." and then hung up. This is how they treat a long term member who wanted to ask a few questions. I didn't want to believe this was a cover-up, but you decide.

According to Dee Parsons, the canceled meeting was about John Langworthy, a child molester that Prestonwood did not report to the police in 1989. (They only fired him.) Since Langworthy confessed in a Mississippi pulpit, this has been a source of embarrassment for Prestonwood and all the churches who did not report this serial child molester to the cops. 

I can imagine that many members want answers. I will try to post more about this story, but something tells me that Dee will have the best coverage over at The Wartburg Watch.

PS - I have a video in my Does Emir Know? series about Ergun's sermon at Prestonwood. 

Contact Ergun directly...

This was recently posted in the comment section on FBCJAXWatchdog's post about "Ergun Caner - the Lance Armstrong of Evangelical Christianity - Finally Returns to Prominent SBC Pulpit, Where Decade of Deceit Began." Obviously the normal caveats need to be said here.  As Ergun has proven, anyone can say anything on the internet, especially without sourcing.  Also, anecdotes are one of the weakest forms of evidence.  All of that being said, I wanted to share this comment.

Simon C. said...

Anyone ever had the bright idea of trying to email Caner directly? I tried because I thought that all the allegations couldn't possibly be true. I get the most friendly guy on the planet, until I mention that I think that he should repent of the things I thought legitimate. Then he blew up at me about it and ended the conversation. That showed me what was what in this matter. I may not agree with the Watchdog on everything (I think that some things he goes after are more than a little nit-picky) but I certainly do on this matter. And it makes me look at everything the people connected to Ergun Caner say in a different light.

I have tried to contact Ergun directly.  I think that I fall under his do not respond to critics policy.  In fairness, I remember what it was like having Ergun in the seminary.  His emails went through his secretary.  At Liberty, if an important professor responded to your email, it was more than likely that the response actually came from their secretary on their behalf, even on theological questions.  (If you ever want to get anything done, talk to the secretaries.)  I can think of one professor who received the same theological questions over and over.  Instead of forwarding the questions on, his secretary started answering the FAQs herself. 

Like when he was at Liberty, the sheer volume of email that Ergun receives probably prevents him from responding to them all.  Perhaps, just perhaps, he should not invite email if he cannot respond to them.  Perhaps, just perhaps, some of Ergun's defenders should not demand that we contact Ergun directly if he will not respond or will not respond in a cordial manner.

Back when I knew Ergun, he enjoyed his facebook account, because it was just him.  His secretary had nothing to do with it, even though I think she eventually figured out the password.   This was about the same time that the Marine videos were filmed.  Over the last couple of years, I have begun to wonder how much of what I "knew" was true.

Haters are crickets

Some days, I don't get Ergun.  He says that he is on the front lines debating and enjoying conflict.  Then he also teaches that people are to avoid their critics, especially on the web. 

I would like to talk to Ergun, but he does not want to talk to me.  Oh well, I guess I will just have to keep making videos about his father smuggling women across the border.

Class who was Virginia named after?

This was recently posted in the comment section on FBCJAXWatchdog's post about Ergun calling some Muslims "towelhead stalkers".  Obviously the normal caveats need to be said here.  As Ergun has proven, anyone can say anything on the internet, especially without sourcing.  Also, anecdotes are one of the weakest forms of evidence.  All of that being said, I wanted to share this comment.

SBCPW said...

"Even the public statement made by Liberty University on June 29, 2010 made this clear when it said, “Dr. Caner has cooperated with the Board committee and has apologized for the discrepancies and misstatements that led to this review.”

My husband was attending Liberty during this time. Caner was one of the more interesting professors to listen to. Unfortunately, after this happened you had to second guess everything he said. In one class about church history he asserts that Virginia was named after the Virgin Mary. Anyone who is familiar with history knows this to be a false statement. Not a life-altering "misstatement" but nevertheless untrue. And why? That was our question all along. Why lie? The Christian community was eating up his testimony like it was the 67th book of the Bible without all of the embellishments...so why lie?

Yes, there is repentance and forgiveness in the church. However, Ergun Caner should have lost all privileges to stand behind a pulpit and preach to anyone. While you should always study the word of God on your own and not just believe it because the pastor said it...you should at least be confident that the person behind the pulpit is not intentionally misleading you.

The answer to life the universe and everything

The answer to life the universe and everything

Recently one of Ergun's defenders challenged someone in the comment section of a blog to produce an example of Ergun saying "towel head".  Given Ergun's affinity (2001-2005, 2005-2010, 2010-2011) for using the word and his recent tweets, it was a silly challenge to make.  I have many more examples as does anyone with Ergun Caner media.

Warning satire follows:

Still in the spirit of Dr. Norman Geisler, I would like to pose a defense of Ergun Caner.

1. While speaking quickly on one occasion, Ergun accidentally jumped from his towel drying story to a joke about his bald head.  At least he didn't use other slurs.  This was hardly an attempt to say "towel head".
2. It is well known that Ergun Caner is a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy fan.  When he said "towel head" he was actually making a reference to the most massively useful thing an interstellar hitchhiker can have.  You can even wrap it round your head to ward off noxious fumes or to avoid the gaze of the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal (a mindboggingly stupid animal, it assumes that if you can't see it, it can't see you - daft as a bush, but very ravenous).  Ergun regularly observes Towel Day.
3. This statement was intended as humor and was taken as such by the audience. Indeed, Ergun has made this joke for more than a decade and never once was it taken as a insult against Muslims. He was illustrating the misconceptions between Americans and Muslims.

Youtube:Battling CORRUPT Bishops and Pastors Who Attack FREE SPEECH

I have read about NotYourTypicalNegro, but until today I had not watched any of his videos.  He does a great job in this video of summarizing the attacks against free speech that corrupt pastors liked to use.  Also, he mentions two of my favorite blogs, FBCJaxWatchdog and  SpiritualSoundingBoard.  He has definitely earned my subscription.

The best point is at the end.  These men and women publicly publish themselves to thousands and even millions of people globally through sermons, books, radio, video, television, blogs, and the internet.  Still let someone with a blog or youtube account criticize them and the backlash comes frothing.  

HT: Julie Anne

This is too much to accept on faith

I have been thinking that Ergun's defenders seem to want us to take a lot on faith.  For example, here is Geilser's defense of Ergun claiming to have half-brothers.

7. Ergun claimed his father had many wives and two half-brothers and two half-sisters, but there is no evidence for the half-brothers.

Response: Ergun’s father did have two wives, having divorced the first one. He had three sons by his first wife (Ergun and his two brothers). So, Ergun has two full brothers and two step-sisters (from his father’s second wife). While speaking quickly on one occasion, he mistakenly called his brothers his “half” brothers. This is hardly evidence of an attempt to embellish or deceive. After all, he had the right number of each sibling, and he didn’t claim to have ten brothers or sisters!

According to Geisler the following examples amount to "one occasion".

June 2005

I came over during the Iranian crisis. Ayatollah Khomeini had taken control. The Shaw of Iran had been kicked out. And Ayatollah Khomeini said this, “We will not stop until America is an Islamic nation.” So in 1978, my father, my mother, my two brothers, my father’s other wives, and my half-brothers and sisters came to this country. How is it that Muslims can come to this country with other wives? Well it is called the Abraham lie. “This is my sister.” It explains our last names being the same. And so he would say, “This is my sisters.”

June 2005

I have half-brothers and half-sisters in Chicago in New York and in Turkey who live here who are still lost as geese still in the slavery of Islam. But I will not give up. How dare I give up. My father died in 99. His wives are still alive. How dare I give up. My half-sisters are still alive. How dare I give up. My half-brothers, my uncles, my aunts. How dare I give up. He didn’t give up on me. He didn’t stop. God didn’t stop hunting me down.

This is the picture that he is referencing

September 2006

This was my father, the one I spoke of yesterday, Acar Mehmet Caner. I am the second from him, that is one of my half sisters, one of my half brothers, and one other of my father’s children. I am the knock kneed child sitting there with my father. This was in Turkey. This was in Istanbul.

January 2009

My father had other wives. My father died in '99, never accepted Jesus. I have half-brothers and sisters who don't know Jesus. Here is why I am telling you this. Some of you, stepped over people on your way here this morning. People that have told you no a hundred times.

 I have tried not to accept things said about Ergun on faith.  However, these self proclaimed apologists who confront culture on the front lines demand that I accept that all four of these examples are just Ergun speaking quickly.  I just don't have that much faith.

Why not just quote Ergun?

This is a comment I wrote on one of FBCJax's latest blogs.  Basically, Ergun's defenders say trust us, this is not what he meant.  Also, the double standard is shocking.  Ergun gets to call people towelheads and denounce them from the pulpit and he is somehow above criticism. 

Anon 8:54,

"The charges on the surface sounds formidable until they are met with TRUTH, then they quickly evaporate away losing all power to condemn – leaving the accusers to contemplate their actions."

Dr. Geisler maintains that these statements are not Ergun claiming his father was polygamous.

March 2003
"My mother found out late in her marriage that my father was married to more than one woman. I don’t want anyone else to deal with this."

April 2005
My father had more than one wife at a time. As you know the Quran says in Surah four that you are allowed up to four wives. My father had three.

April 2005
"We got stopped at the border, because my father had listed my mother as property. It’s true. And the guy said, 'Your wife’s not property.' And he said, 'of course she is.' Then he brought his 'sisters' which is his other wives that’s how we bring in our other wives to America. We call them our 'sisters'".

June 2005
"I came over during the Iranian crisis. Ayatollah Khomeini had taken control. The Shaw of Iran had been kicked out. And Ayatollah Khomeini said this, 'We will not stop until America is an Islamic nation.' So in 1978, my father, my mother, my two brothers, my father’s other wives, and my half-brothers and sisters came to this country. How is it that Muslims can come to this country with other wives? Well it is called the Abraham lie. 'This is my sister.' It explains our last names being the same. And so he would say, 'This is my sisters.'"

September 2006
"I was the oldest. My father brought his wives with him. Yes, polygamous Muslims do come to America. We call it the Abraham lie. They say, 'This is my wife, and this is my sister.'"

June 2007
We got stopped coming to America, I can’t believe I’m telling you this, but I’m gonna. We got stopped coming to America in 1978. My father listed my mother as property on the manifest. Acar Mehmet Caner listed Monica Inez Caner, my mom, as property. And by the way, he came to America like many Muslims do with many wives, but polygamy is not allowed. It’s called the Abraham lie. Who knows what I’m talking about? This is my sister, that’s right. So my father had, he said, ‘This is my wife, Halah, and these are my sisters. It explains the last name.

It is laughable that you consider it truth that none of these statements are Ergun claiming that his father was polygamous.

PS - Ergun Anonymous defenders, welcome to the club.

2010-2011 Ergun Caner using the word "towelhead"

This is the third video in this series.  Honestly, I feel a little silly.  The only reason that I made these videos is because one of Ergun's friends demanded proof.  Both another seminary student and I remember Ergun using the word "towelhead" while we were attending Liberty.  These ten examples were only just the ones that I could produce on short notice. 

This friend of Ergun was closer to the man than I ever was.  You would think that he would not be surprised at his use of the term.  Now, Ergun could claim, as he has many times, that being a Turk gives him certain rights to use certain slurs, especially slurs against Turks and Arabs. Yet that was not even the question.  This friend wanted proof that he had ever said the slur. 

The relevant blog can be found here. http://hereiblog.com/ethics-guest-preacher-calls-muslims-towelheads/

2005-2010 Ergun Caner saying "towelhead" montage

January 8, 2013, John Ankerberg invited Ergun and Emir onto his show praying that their testimony would win Muslims to Christ. January 20, 2013 Ergun went into a twitter tirade and one of the insults he used was "towelhead". Around 2005, Ergun put out a video where he claimed that Stelzer Rd Baptist Church loved him to the cross by not insulting him. Apparently Ergun has abandoned that strategy.

Inspired by this drama, HereIBlog, posted an interesting ethical scenario. You invite your Muslim friend to church to here a former Muslim speak preach. During his sermon, the former Muslim refers to Muslims as "towelheads". What do you do?

Someone in the comments demanded that the blogger "put up or shut up. Point me to a sermon where Ergun Caner has used such a term." This is my first attempt to put up.

The relevant blog can be found here. http://hereiblog.com/ethics-guest-preacher-calls-muslims-towelheads/

2001-2005 Ergun Caner saying "towelhead" montage

January 8, 2013, John Ankerberg invited Ergun and Emir onto his show praying that their testimony would win Muslims to Christ. January 20, 2013 Ergun went into a twitter tirade and one of the insults he used was "towelhead". Around 2005, Ergun put out a video where he claimed that Stelzer Rd Baptist Church loved him to the cross by not insulting him. Apparently Ergun has abandoned that strategy.

Inspired by this drama, HereIBlog, posted an interesting ethical scenario. You invite your Muslim friend to church to here a former Muslim speak preach. During his sermon, the former Muslim refers to Muslims as "towelheads". What do you do?

Someone in the comments demanded that the blogger "put up or shut up. Point me to a sermon where Ergun Caner has used such a term." This is my first attempt to put up.

The relevant blog can be found here. http://hereiblog.com/ethics-guest-preacher-calls-muslims-towelheads/

Things change

I have tried to never exaggerate my contact with Ergun Caner.  He knew me.  I knew him.  We worked together on certain things.  I don't know if he would have called me a friend, an acquaintance, or just another student.  Once or twice he invited me over to his place, but he invited a lot of seminary students over to his place. 

I started MosesModel two years ago in 2010.  I was still a seminary student back then.  The Marine videos were of a lecture that was only five years old.  As the years pass, I am a graduate and the Marine videos are about to turn eight years old, this April.

It is entirely possible that I am out of touch with what is going on at Liberty in 2013.  I know some Liberty students, but they mostly agree with me.  I think I know a few professors who still think that Ergun never lied.  However, their opinions could have changed since I last asked them.  I know the last year has been transformative for my way of thinking.

Ankerberg and Lee still maintain that Liberty never found one instance of Ergun lying. If they are wrong, why does no one correct them? Ergun still maintains that he never lied in a sermon or lecture. Why does no one correct him?  Ergun still does speaking engagements with Tony Nolan and Clayton King, but that is just guilt by association.  (I have often wondered why the Holy Spirit does not convict Ergun from just being around King and Nolan.)  Also, Liberty is closely tied to FRC and Ergun will be one of their speakers again this year, but again that is just guilt by association.

So I could be out of touch.  I hope that I am, but there is some things that imply that I am not, but most of that is just guilt by association. 

God Bless,

Moses