If you haven't listened to Ephesians 5:11 Blog interview with Nick Vanderlaan, you really should.
Saunders has really done an excellent job compiling the information and interviewing Nick. A year ago, we knew about this arrest from Colin Pearson. Now it is great to have the information from the arrestee himself.
MCDebate has done a great job compiling James' interview with Colin with what we have learned from Nick.
Thursday, November 29, 2012
Ergun Caner: Does Emir Know? - Halftime Show
This is a quick summary of the "Does Emir Know?" series thus far. There are more examples and if you have watched my Ergun huevos video, you know that I have far more examples of Ergun saying his brothers converted while he was in college.
I understand that everybody does not have time to listen to hours of Ergun sermons. Also, I understand that everybody does not have the hour that it would take you to watch the entire video series. So I made this video to sum up the story thus far. I think that it is pretty safe to say that Ergun has given many contradictory versions of Emir's conversion.
Transcript:
 |
| The third column is going to fill up. |
Sometimes it is best to look back at from whence we came and look towards where we are going. There are more examples to give, but this will be a place to deal only with the examples provided so far.
The primary focus in this video series has been the claims that Ergun has made about his brother Emir. The recent video about his parents’ divorce was more of a halftime show. Here we will sum up the chronology.
After 9/11, but still in 2001, Ergun preached at Prestonwood Baptist Church that both his brothers had converted after he preached a seven minute Sunday night sermon. He also claimed that he had converted November 4, 1982.
In 2002, Ergun and Emir coauthored Unveiling Islam. In one of the autobiographical sections of the book, Ergun converts on a Thursday. Erdem later converted in their mother’s basement. Then Ergun invited Emir to a revival service where he converted that Thursday night, November 4, 1982. Notice at Prestonwood, Ergun converted November 4, 1982, but in Unveiling Islam, Emir converted November 4, 1982. Also, notice that his brothers converted at separate times, when at Prestonwood, they converted the same Sunday night. Also, you will notice that this is the only example I have of this order of events.
Ergun continued to claim that he was the one who converted November 4, 1982. So did Emir, but that will be dealt with in another video. One example from Ergun was provided from 2005. Here he simply stated with no real details that his brothers were saved a year later. A 2007 example was also provided, however in this example, he stated again that his brothers converted after a seven minute Sunday night sermon. I provided 2008 example, where he again stated that he, not Emir, converted November 4, 1982. His brothers are said to have converted a year later. Like usual, no details are given.
As mentioned, Ergun generally claims that he was a High School Senior, November 4, 1982. He was not. He was a Junior. However, if he did convert as a Senior, the logical inference is that a year later when his brothers converted, he was a college Freshman. 2009 at Calvary Chapel Old Bridge is my earliest example of him claiming this.
So here, we have at least three different conversion stories provided by Ergun about Emir. They cannot all be true. Again, these are not the only examples of Ergun making such claims. Also, again, Emir has continued to claim that he was the one, not Ergun, who converted November 4, 1982. I have no examples of Ergun repeating the version of Emir’s conversion that is contained in their book.
Even though, chronologically Ergun’s claim about November 4, 1982 and the seven minute Sunday night sermon came first, I have assumed that the story in Unveiling Islam is the true one. It was coauthored by both brothers and it was the version that was put into print. Still, does Emir know that Ergun has said so many things about him?
Like this video if you like it and subscribe for videos.
Music
"Remember How It Started" and "Dream Player" provided by danasongs.com
Sources
Unveiling Islam Google Books
“From Jihad to Jesus” 4/26/2010 Focus on the Family broadcast from a 2001 sermon at Prestonwood Baptist Church http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/From+Jihad+To+Jesus/g2QVv?src=5
“Church House or Jail House?” – North Alabama Bible Conference – 2005, Decatur Baptist Church: Decatur, AL – January 12, 2005 http://sermons.decaturbaptist.org/20050112PM.mp3
“General Session #2 - Dr. Ergun Caner” -- First Baptist Church Pearl City – Pearl City, HI - June 1, 2007 http://evangelism.fbcpearlcity.com/resources.html
“God’s Word,” The Downtown Church: Bellevue, WA – April 19, 2008 http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/gods-word/id321185342?i=113186322&mt=2
“The Greatest Day in Church”- Calvary Chapel Old Bridge – Old Bridge, NJ – January 25, 2009 http://www.bridgegap.org/e/shop/item.asp?itemid=2958#
Cited Links
Tim Lee's statements
http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/05/after-11-months-liberty-university.html
September 25, 2010 article where Ergun says he did not lie.
http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2010/sep/25/caner-defends-background-bristol-speech-ar-524525/
The unedited Marine videos on Viddler
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jsin/videos/2/
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jsin/videos/1/
Unedited Marine Videos on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxmIMR1LNos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpDm3Z9tI-M
Ergun Caner's Apology
http://sbctoday.com/2010/02/25/statement-from-dr-ergun-caner/
Norman Geisler's statements
http://www.normangeisler.net/articles/ErgunCaner/
Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Ergun maintains his sermons are 100% lie free
I saw this post on Ergun's Facebook fanpage.
This fan later wrote in the comments:
A couple of sentences struck me.
There is just one problem. Ergun maintains to this day that all his sermons, lectures, and videos are 100% lie free. For all those who think that Ergun lied and we just need to forgive him, according to Ergun that's slander. We all lie? According to Ergun, he doesn't...at least not in his sermons. "I have never intentionally misled anyone."
Can't God use a mistake, a failure, a falsehood, a lie even...for good? People all over the world are pushed to believe in God from the secular world. Secular music, art, and even movies influence people towards good. The biggest tragedy in my opinion related to is the personal integrity issue that was created. His preaching is strong, moving, Godly, and biblical. Even our biblical heroes were often greedy, rage filled, selfish, liars, adulterers, murderers, tax collectors...etc. Saul, Solomon, David, Moses...and so on. But we learn from their lives, their messages, mistakes, failures, and see that even in the things they have done, God still loves them, and we still learn from them. Thanks to messages like, "Scratch n' Sniff Spirituality." I find myself truly guarding my heart, and living as though this life on earth isn't all their is. I'm thankful for the learning, and the teaching from Mr. Caner, and I'll forever love messages like, "Love, lies, and Landmines". If you feel you can't trust the man, take the teaching, and put them against the bible, and decide if they are worth learning from.
This fan later wrote in the comments:
Yeah, so I'm a liar, you're a liar. We all lie. None are worthy of the forgiveness of God but he still showed love and mercy for us by sending Christ to die for us. I promise that you lie, I promise that I lie. I promise that even pastors and holy men lie. If you say you don't, I already win the argument. I don't condone his lie I disregard the sermon in fact, but God can use anything for his purpose. Even if we make our own lives miserable by doing something we know he doesn't want us to do. I. know that people can still find truth in the Biblicaly/Godly inspired words of EC's sermons. If you were fans before you were "betrayed", and you began changing and living your life differently after hearing the sermons, then you know you felt the Truth inside you're heart especially if the teaching was in fact biblical. If you were a hater before and a hater after, you're living in an ungodly way the same as a liar.
I went to Fiji years ago with a group called shake the nations. They touched people and helped lead many to Christ. They fed the hungry, built shelter for the homeless, & made lasting change...several years later, the president was arrested and sentenced to 15yrs for embezzlement and financial crimes...does that mean the good we did was voided? No way.
Listen to his sermons: "Scratch n Sniff Spirituality" and "Love Lies and Land Mines." Tell me otherwise. They've strengthened my marriage, and my armor of God allowing me to be a better person at outreach, and to guard my heart otherwise.
A couple of sentences struck me.
- Can't God use a mistake, a failure, a falsehood, a lie even...for good?
- Even our biblical heroes were often greedy, rage filled, selfish, liars, adulterers, murderers, tax collectors...etc. Saul, Solomon, David, Moses...and so on.
- Yeah, so I'm a liar, you're a liar. We all lie.
I promise that you lie, I promise that I lie. I promise that even pastors and holy men lie. If you say you don't, I already win the argument. I don't condone his lie I disregard the sermon in fact, but God can use anything for his purpose.
Mark and Ergun
I found this on Mark Williams' website from 11/18/12. It is from his 2010 book which cites a radio interview that he did with Ergun. (If anyone has that interview I would love to have it.)
Seriously, Mark needs to update his information.
Update:
I am often puzzled how some of these uber-pro-American types support a guy who refuses to apologize for lying to our Marines.
Seriously, Mark needs to update his information.
Update:
I am often puzzled how some of these uber-pro-American types support a guy who refuses to apologize for lying to our Marines.
Sunday, November 18, 2012
"Tear down God's Church"
FBCJaxWatchdog (WD) is a haus and doesn't need my defense. I just wanted to point out some nonsense in the comment section of his latest post.
This blog is on life support.
It is dying and is not being visited hardly at all.
I am thankful and prayers are being answered.
He is our defender and I pray for you Tom. You have a heavy burden to carry for trying to tear down God's Church.I suspect that this commenter attacks some versions of God's Church. I suspect he would challenge papal infallibility. He is probably a critic of Jeremiah Wright and Al Sharpton. We all go after things calling themselves God's Church. It is a foolhardy card to play that you can't go after something calling itself God's Church.
Friday, November 16, 2012
Translating one of God's most anointed expository preachers
2007:My Mom was divorced when my brothers became Christians. My Father left her, blaming her for our conversion.The most obvious explanation for these four statements is that Ergun is trying to say that his father divorced his mother, because his father blamed his mother for their conversions. However, Ergun, Emir, and Norman all teach that this explanation is the false one. They all teach that since Ergun has claimed he never lied in his sermons this explanation must be false. However, they have not said what Ergun was trying to say.
2008:When my Mom got saved, because my father left her, because I became a Christian.
2009: You see, my Father left my Mom, because he blamed her that we got saved.
2011: My parents divorced, my Father blamed my Mom for our conversions.
They seem to believe that Christians should be given the benefit of the doubt. For example, Ergun said the following in a speech to the Marines at New River.
(3:10) My father had more than one wife at a time. As you know the Quran says in Surah four that you are allowed up to four wives. My father had three.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpDm3Z9tI-M
He even doubled down on the statement in the same speech.
(59:57) They have problems with immigration. I became an American citizen…uh…and stood up and took the vow and came in legally. We got stopped at the border, because my father had listed my mother as property. It’s true. And the guy said, “Your wife’s not property.” And he said, “of course she is.” Then he brought his “sisters” which is his other wives that’s how we bring in our other wives to America. We call them our “sisters”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpDm3Z9tI-M
He also repeated it in Hawaii in 2007.
(33:20) We got stopped coming to America, I can’t believe I’m telling you this, but I’m gonna. We got stopped coming to America in 1978. My father listed my mother as property on the manifest. Acar Mehmet Caner listed Monica Inez Caner, my mom, as property. And by the way, he came to America like many Muslims do with many wives, but polygamy is not allowed. It’s called the Abraham lie. Who knows what I’m talking about? This is my sister, that’s right. So my father had, he said, ‘This is my wife, Halah, and these are my sisters'. It explains the last name.
How does Ergun, Emir, and Norman explain these statements? They argue that he was trying to say that his father divorced his mother and then remarried. See they believe in giving the benefit of the doubt...but then there is this.
 |
| Oh well, so much for the benefit of the doubt. |
Seriously it should scare you that these educators are teaching civilians, servicemen, and kids to think like this. Scarily, smuggling wives across the border, becomes a divorce and remarriage.
Ergun and Emir Caner and their Mom's divorce
According to Unveiling Islam, Dr. Ergun Caner’s parents’ marriage was doomed from the start. His mother was raised in Stockholm and educated all over Europe. His father was a Turkish immigrant with very different views. What is important here is that according to Unveiling Islam, Ergun’s parents divorced prior to their sons’ conversion to Christianity. There is a link in the description to the relevant portions of the autobiography.
The marriage was doomed from the beginning, a clash of cultures. Our mother was an only child, raised in Stockholm and educated all over Europe. By the time she was twenty, she had attended the Sorbonne in Paris, and had traveled the world. Father was from heartier stock. As the youngest child in his family, he had earned everything he owned and was steeped in Islamic culture. Their assumptions about marriage clearly clashed.
The divorce, which was finalized in America, was painful. As in most divorces, the children became the human “ropes” in a tug-of-war, torn between parents. A pattern developed of weekend visits between Columbus and Gahanna, in central Ohio. Yet even the wrenching experience of divorce could not prepare us for our father’s disavowal.
Entering high school, Ergun was a typical young man, except that he was a devout Muslim. Even through the divorce, our parents had maintained our rearing in the mosque. Each weekend, we would travel to Broad Street in Columbus, Ohio, where our father had helped found the Islamic Foundation. The mosque in Toledo was too far a drive, so the Foundation Center was established. Father did the call to prayer on occasion.
The divorce, which was finalized in America, was painful. As in most divorces, the children became the human “ropes” in a tug-of-war, torn between parents. A pattern developed of weekend visits between Columbus and Gahanna, in central Ohio. Yet even the wrenching experience of divorce could not prepare us for our father’s disavowal.
Entering high school, Ergun was a typical young man, except that he was a devout Muslim. Even through the divorce, our parents had maintained our rearing in the mosque. Each weekend, we would travel to Broad Street in Columbus, Ohio, where our father had helped found the Islamic Foundation. The mosque in Toledo was too far a drive, so the Foundation Center was established. Father did the call to prayer on occasion.
This was verified by divorce documents obtained by Jason Smathers. Ergun’s parents separated in 1975 and finalized their divorce in 1978. These documents are uncontested. In defending Ergun, Norman Geisler, noted:
Further, that Ergun was reared a devout Muslim is proven by his father’s testimony recorded in the divorce proceedings documents which ironically Ergun’s critic placed on the internet.
In another defense, he referenced the order of events. “After the divorce, he was raised by his mother who obviously had not disowned him since she was no longer a Muslim. But his Muslim father who had remarried did disown him.” Relevant portions are made available in the description below.
The Charge that His Family Did Not Disown Him When He Converted to Christianity as Caner Claimed that they Did.—It is true that after the divorce he was raised by his mother who obviously had not disowned him since she was no longer a Muslim. But his Muslim father who had remarried did disown him. This is the Muslim “family” to which he referred. This was very painful to him since he lived only a half hour away but could not even speak to him.
- In Defense of Dr. Ergun Caner: A Response to His Critics
OK, we all know the time line now. In 1975, when Ergun was about 8 or 9, his parents separated. In 1978, when Ergun was about 11 or 12, his parents divorced. Ergun later converted to Christianity somewhere in between 1981-1983, depending on which version of his story you go by. Emir and Erdem converted somewhere in between 1982-1984, depending on which version of their story you go by. The point is that the divorce took place 4 to 6 years prior to their conversions. Anyone who said otherwise would probably be lying. Cue clip from 2007.
If you are going to change the world, find you the Jewish equivalent of Bill Gates who can fund this movement. What ya talking to a poor person for? Strike four, she’s divorced. This Brittney Spears of the first century, five times, don’t you reckon after three or four she might think it’s her? Might be me?
Jesus said, “You answered correctly, five times, you had five husbands.” And in many churches, that’s the Scarlett Letter. Neither I have been divorced or my wife. Both our families have been through it. My Mom was divorced when my brothers became Christians. My Father left her, blaming her for our conversion. And when my Mom got saved, in 1991, there was nowhere she could serve, because our little church said that if you were divorced you can’t serve in any capacity. It is no longer the “Scarlett A”, but the “Scarlett D”.
Jesus said, “You answered correctly, five times, you had five husbands.” And in many churches, that’s the Scarlett Letter. Neither I have been divorced or my wife. Both our families have been through it. My Mom was divorced when my brothers became Christians. My Father left her, blaming her for our conversion. And when my Mom got saved, in 1991, there was nowhere she could serve, because our little church said that if you were divorced you can’t serve in any capacity. It is no longer the “Scarlett A”, but the “Scarlett D”.
Oh no! Surely there must be some other explanation for Ergun saying, “My father left her, blaming her for our conversion”. Come on guys! This is my 25th Ergun Caner video on this channel. You all know that I am going to provide multiple examples of Ergun making the same false statement over and over again. Then I will ask you which is more likely, that Ergun accidentally said his father punitively divorced his mother or that he said so purposely? So cue 2008. This clip was only five months later.
Strike four, she’s divorced. Jesus busts her, doesn’t he? He says, “You answered right.” “You’ve had five husbands.” This biblical Brittney Spears, has gone through husband after husband after husband. Don’t you think at some point she’d say, “Maybe it’s me?” But don’t you think that happens in the church all the time? We have sort of a new Scarlett Letter don’t we? My apologies to Hawthorne, but the big letter’s “D” now.
I’ve never been divorced. My wife’s never been divorced, but our whole family both sides decimated by it. And often in the church, the whispers the divorced hear, how, “Who are you?”
When my Mom got saved, because my father left her, because I became a Christian. When my Mom got saved, she couldn’t serve in the church where she got saved, because she was divorced. Jesus what are you talking to this divorcee?
I’ve never been divorced. My wife’s never been divorced, but our whole family both sides decimated by it. And often in the church, the whispers the divorced hear, how, “Who are you?”
When my Mom got saved, because my father left her, because I became a Christian. When my Mom got saved, she couldn’t serve in the church where she got saved, because she was divorced. Jesus what are you talking to this divorcee?
This next clip is 12 months later. You will notice that I edited the clip with about a minute and a half before Ergun begins preaching on divorce. One, I like providing longer clips. They help you understand that I am not deceitfully giving gotcha moments. By all means, please listen to the unedited audio which I have linked to in the description below.
Two, I do hope you appreciate the irony. You will see what I mean in a moment.
Three, this is one of Ergun’s notorious youth events. These are teenagers that he is talking to. When I was a youth pastor, I wanted Ergun to speak to my youth group. By God’s grace, I am glad that he never did. Later on that day, Ergun will even tell the youth that at age 8, he was betrothed to a Turkish girl while he was still living in Istanbul, Turkey. Ergun, here, is lying to kids, kids that trusted him. How could he do this? Let us just cue clip 2009.
And we lie. Somebody asks you what kind of home you come from. Somebody asks you to tell the story. Somebody asks what’s your background? Somebody asks you what you struggle with. We lie.
Don’t you understand if God can get you through whatever it is that you are going through, that’s part of your story? And the reason that God kept you here to survive that was to help others who may be going through that? Don’t you understand that there are people you can talk to who would never listen to me? They would never show up to listen to a guy with a four hundred pound pumpkin head talk, but they will listen to you, because you have earned their trust. They will listen to you, if you tell them your story. Your scars become your story when you are willing to admit your weakness. That’s why he says, “We ain’t preaching ourselves, we preach Christ.” Your most effective witness will be before those people who know you, who know you and understand where you came from. Use whatever it is you deal with. Use whatever it is from which you came. Use it. Tell it. Be transparent. Don’t fake it and you will be astonished at the number of people who will listen to you. You have a story that God’s given you.
How many here, by a show of hands, come from a divorced background? Me too. We don’t talk about it, not in the church. That’s the new Scarlett Letter. I’ve not been divorced. My wife’s not been divorced. Everybody else in our family is. Not like our brothers, not Jill’s brothers, not my brothers. Our parents, Jill’s parents, her uncles and aunts, my uncles and aunts, everybody’s gone through it and when they come to church they feel like they got the “Scarlett Letter D”.
And so when I talk to those people and I say, “Let me tell you what my parents went through.” You see, my Father left my Mom, because he blamed her that we got saved. And those that come from a divorced background go, “I’m right there with you”.
Don’t you understand if God can get you through whatever it is that you are going through, that’s part of your story? And the reason that God kept you here to survive that was to help others who may be going through that? Don’t you understand that there are people you can talk to who would never listen to me? They would never show up to listen to a guy with a four hundred pound pumpkin head talk, but they will listen to you, because you have earned their trust. They will listen to you, if you tell them your story. Your scars become your story when you are willing to admit your weakness. That’s why he says, “We ain’t preaching ourselves, we preach Christ.” Your most effective witness will be before those people who know you, who know you and understand where you came from. Use whatever it is you deal with. Use whatever it is from which you came. Use it. Tell it. Be transparent. Don’t fake it and you will be astonished at the number of people who will listen to you. You have a story that God’s given you.
How many here, by a show of hands, come from a divorced background? Me too. We don’t talk about it, not in the church. That’s the new Scarlett Letter. I’ve not been divorced. My wife’s not been divorced. Everybody else in our family is. Not like our brothers, not Jill’s brothers, not my brothers. Our parents, Jill’s parents, her uncles and aunts, my uncles and aunts, everybody’s gone through it and when they come to church they feel like they got the “Scarlett Letter D”.
And so when I talk to those people and I say, “Let me tell you what my parents went through.” You see, my Father left my Mom, because he blamed her that we got saved. And those that come from a divorced background go, “I’m right there with you”.
In 2010, less than a year from the last clip, Ergun released his statement that he never intentionally misled anyone. I have provided so far three clips in which Ergun says he never intended for you to believe that his father divorced his mother due to her sons’ conversions. Do you buy that? You would expect with all the attention given to false statements like these; Ergun would stop making them in 2010. However you would think wrong. My next clip is from 2011.
My parents divorced, my Father blamed my Mom for our conversions. In 1991, with three boys as Christians, my Mom got saved, my Mom. My Mom is now remarried, a man from her discipleship group, who is now a supply pastor. Just got called to be an interim pastor, which is hilarious, which makes my Mom and an interim pastor’s wife. If you knew my Mom, you’d know how funny that was. Because if my Mom ever comes to your door, you’ll know it. Heavy accent, little woman, smoking, smoking, I mean chain smoking, pall malls unfiltered. “Filters are for wimps.” And she’ll do it witnessing. “I want to tell you about Jesus”.
Do you remember Ergun’s friend, Norman, who pointed out the divorce documents as proof that Ergun was a devout Muslim? Remember, he also noted that the divorce came before her boys conversion? Surely, he would correct Ergun? Nope, he’s right there.
Look if I had gotten married, if I ever show you a picture of Jill, she is a great godly woman, but my wife is hot, hot, hot. Like we stand side by side and people will go. All the time, all the time, Dr. Geisler will tell you.
I do not what you say, when one of your brothers lies publicly about your own mother. However, I definitely would not defend him as having “unquestionably character.” Perhaps, when someone lies about their mother, they are one of God’s anointed, but are they really one of God’s most anointed? Then again, does Emir even know?
Thanks for watching. Like the video if you like it. Subscribe for more videos.
Music
"The Owl Named Orion" by danosongs.com
"Light Banjo" by soundcloud.com
"Monster" by Peach Stealing Monkeys from PeachStealingMonkeys.com
"The Bottom" by Josh Woodward from joshwoodward.com
Sources
Unveiling Islam Google Books
Norman Geisler's statements
http://www.normangeisler.net/articles/ErgunCaner/
"Ergun Caner’s Secret Biography" Witness Unto Me - March 30, 2010
http://www.witnessesuntome.com/2010/03/ergun-caners-secret-biography/
"Ergun Caner 2" 2007 NW Baptist Convention - November 14, 2007
http://audio.nwbaptist.org/2007%20NW%20Baptist%20Convention/Ergun%20Caner%202.mp3
“God’s Word,” The Downtown Church: Bellevue, WA – April 19, 2008 http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/gods-word/id321185342?i=113186322&mt=2
"Ergun Caner Saturday Morning" Northwest Baptist Youth Ministry Student Conference - May 29, 2009 http://audio.nwbaptist.org/2009%20Student%20Conference/Ergun%20Caner%20Saturday%20Morning.mp3
"Why I am no longer a Muslim" Mt. Airy Bible Church - May 7, 2011 https://vimeo.com/24514727
Cited Links
Tim Lee's statements
http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/05/after-11-months-liberty-university.html
September 25, 2010 article where Ergun says he did not lie.
http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2010/sep/25/caner-defends-background-bristol-speech-ar-524525/
The unedited Marine videos on Viddler
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jsin/videos/2/
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jsin/videos/1/
Unedited Marine Videos on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxmIMR1LNos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpDm3Z9tI-M
Ergun Caner's Apology
http://sbctoday.com/2010/02/25/statement-from-dr-ergun-caner/
Norman Geisler's statements
http://www.normangeisler.net/articles/ErgunCaner/
Saturday, November 3, 2012
Translating Ergun according to Dr. Norman Geisler :)
In my last video, there was a clip where Dr. Ergun Caner said the following.
My father was an Ulema in the mosque. An Ulema is a scholar. He was an architect by vocation. And when we came to America in 78, through Brooklyn, we settled in Columbus, Ohio to build mosques. That is exactly what my father did until the day he died, 1999.Now according to Dr. Norman Geisler any reference to Ergun coming to America in 1978 is a reference to him getting his citizenship in 1978. It is supposedly "well known" that Ergun became a citizen around the age of 11 or 12. So the fourth sentence should read:
And when weI don't know, but regardless of what Norman says, that still sounds fishy to me. :)came to Americaobtained my citizenship in 78, through Brooklyn, we settled in Columbus, Ohio to build mosques.
Friday, November 2, 2012
Ergun Caner: Does Emir Know? - The Review
Previously on Moses Model
Emir converted November 4, 1982
Ergun maintains that he never intentionally misled anyone. What are the odds that I can provide you with two more examples of him claiming he converted the same day that his brother?
Prestonwood Baptist Church, 2001
November 4, 1982
Decatur Baptist Church, January 12, 2005
November 4, 1982
First Baptist Church Pearl City, June 1, 2007
[Indiscernible] It was November 4, 1982.
The Downtown Church, April 19, 2008
I went home, November 4, 1982
Generally Ergun falsely claims to have been a High School Senior in 1982 during his conversion.
First Baptist Church Pearl City, June 1, 2007
He
started when we were Freshmen in High School in Gahanna Lincoln High
School in Gahanna, Ohio. He did not stop until I was a Senior going into
my Senior year.
Canyon Creek Baptist Sermon, July 31, 2011
Started my Freshman year and wouldn’t quit until my Senior year.
C3 Church Sermon, January 1, 2012
Finally going into my Senior year, I decide, ‘You know what? I’ll show you.
Fortress of Faith interview, June 4, 2012
He kept coming and finally going into my Senior year in High School, I decided I’d take him up on his challenge.
If he converted as a High School Senior, the logical inference is that he was a High School graduate a year later when his brothers converted.
What if I can provide you with an example of him claiming to have converted November 4, 1982 with a bonus? What if I can provide you with Ergun saying also that he was in college when his brothers converted?
If all of this is unintentional What are the odds that such an example exists?
The main point of this video series has been that these errors by Dr. Ergun Caner occur too often and too purposefully to be accidental misstatements. Ergun claims, even today, to have converted in the same year, during the same month, on the same day, and even on the same day of the week as his brother Emir. Let’s say I accept that one was an accident, OK. Ergun also claims to have been a High School Senior, on that day November 4, 1982. OK, let’s say I accept that one was an accident. Ergun also maintains, November 4, 1982 was his fourth year in High School and Jerry had pursued him for four years. He even counts out the years frequently on stage. Let’s say that I accept that Ergun often does not remember his correct graduation year. What are the odds that he would make all these errors in the same sermon? What are the odds that he would consistently make these errors in almost every sermon that I have available to listen to?
What are the odds that he would claim that his brothers converted while he was a Freshman in college too? I hope you see that as you start adding the errors that he consistently makes about himself and others it becomes increasingly unlikely that he made these mistakes accidentally. At this point I am not even really pointing out the three different versions of Emir’s testimony that Ergun provides.
In the introduction to this video, most of the examples I gave of Ergun claiming to have converted his senior year were from 2011 and 2012. I was trying to demonstrate that he has not stopped making false claims. I could have easily pulled more from the sermon that I provided.
Do you want to know why I teach full time? Do you want to know why I am going to be here until I die? Because I love my life. I get to be around those kids everyday. I get to be around kids like, Jerry Tacket. Jerry Tacket was an obnoxious kid trying to earn an awana badge. I don’t know. I don’t know what it was. But beginning in my Freshman year and going until my Senior year, Jerry Tacket never took “no” for an answer.
For 3 ½ years, almost 4 years, Tacket kept coming after me. Dude, do you want to come to the lock-in? Dude, you want to go roller skating? Dude, fifth quarter? Hotdog hogout? Pizza pigout? All those youth things that people do? “No, no, no.”
Freshman year, Sophomore year, Junior year, leave me alone. I have my prayer rug in the locker room and I’d roll it out and I’d be praying. My forehead to the ground, I’d come back up and there he is standing. “Hey!”
I love Jerry, man he’s a punk. I love him, but he’s still my friend. I’m like, dude you were tenacious to say the least. “Hey can I give you a Bible?” “No, I have my Quran.” “Hey, I just want to tell you that Jesus loves you.” “Would you leave me alone?”
Going into my Senior year, I figured I found a way to shut him up. I said, “I’ll go with you to your church, if you come to the mosque.” This High School Senior, this 17 year old boy, named Jerry Tacket, walked to the mosque on Broad Street in Columbus, Ohio. Walked in with a Bible in his hand and a “Jesus Saves” t-shirt. That’s hardcore. That’s hardcore right there. That’s SECW straight. He walked in like this, “Hey, how ya doing, nice to meet ya, nice to meet ya.”
My father goes, “Ergun, who is this kid?” I went over to Tacket and I was like, “Alright.” I walked into the Stelzer Road Baptist Church, in Columbus, Ohio. It might as well have been Calvary Chapel, because I’d never seen it. Never held a Bible, never been in a worship service, never been around Christians. I sat in the back. I didn’t know that the secret of Baptists is that when you sit in the back that is where they all sit. Swhrooom, 20 of them all around me.
You’ll know Baptist in heaven, because Baptists will be the ones going through the gate asking for a bulletin. Because they all had their bulletins They had a hymnal, I didn’t know what a hymnal was. Had a Bible. Didn’t know what that was. I didn’t know why they wouldn’t sit still. Just like you people, stand, sit, turn around, hug a neck kiss a baby. It’s like jeserocise man. Yall won’t hold still.
I was trying to be anonymous sit in the back and there comes Tacket and there comes his friends and there comes all these youth. Four years, they had been going on me. They never gave up.
For 3 ½ years, almost 4 years, Tacket kept coming after me. Dude, do you want to come to the lock-in? Dude, you want to go roller skating? Dude, fifth quarter? Hotdog hogout? Pizza pigout? All those youth things that people do? “No, no, no.”
Freshman year, Sophomore year, Junior year, leave me alone. I have my prayer rug in the locker room and I’d roll it out and I’d be praying. My forehead to the ground, I’d come back up and there he is standing. “Hey!”
I love Jerry, man he’s a punk. I love him, but he’s still my friend. I’m like, dude you were tenacious to say the least. “Hey can I give you a Bible?” “No, I have my Quran.” “Hey, I just want to tell you that Jesus loves you.” “Would you leave me alone?”
Going into my Senior year, I figured I found a way to shut him up. I said, “I’ll go with you to your church, if you come to the mosque.” This High School Senior, this 17 year old boy, named Jerry Tacket, walked to the mosque on Broad Street in Columbus, Ohio. Walked in with a Bible in his hand and a “Jesus Saves” t-shirt. That’s hardcore. That’s hardcore right there. That’s SECW straight. He walked in like this, “Hey, how ya doing, nice to meet ya, nice to meet ya.”
My father goes, “Ergun, who is this kid?” I went over to Tacket and I was like, “Alright.” I walked into the Stelzer Road Baptist Church, in Columbus, Ohio. It might as well have been Calvary Chapel, because I’d never seen it. Never held a Bible, never been in a worship service, never been around Christians. I sat in the back. I didn’t know that the secret of Baptists is that when you sit in the back that is where they all sit. Swhrooom, 20 of them all around me.
You’ll know Baptist in heaven, because Baptists will be the ones going through the gate asking for a bulletin. Because they all had their bulletins They had a hymnal, I didn’t know what a hymnal was. Had a Bible. Didn’t know what that was. I didn’t know why they wouldn’t sit still. Just like you people, stand, sit, turn around, hug a neck kiss a baby. It’s like jeserocise man. Yall won’t hold still.
I was trying to be anonymous sit in the back and there comes Tacket and there comes his friends and there comes all these youth. Four years, they had been going on me. They never gave up.
I was in college eight months later.
I wanted to provide a long unedited clip. This was the closest one available. If this particular video series was about Ergun claiming to have immigrated to the United States as a teenager, this sermon also had that too.
My father’s name is Acar Mehmet Caner. I say it out loud, because just telling the story, you don’t get to do that often and most Muslims who are Muslims have never met a Murtad. I am a Murtad. I left Islam and became a believer in Jesus Christ.
My father was an Ulema in the mosque. An Ulema is a scholar. He was an architect by vocation. And when we came to America in 78, through Brooklyn, we settled in Columbus, Ohio to build mosques. That is exactly what my father did until the day he died, 1999.
We were not casual Muslims. We were not comfortable Muslims. We were the devout. We wore keffiyeh. We spoke in Arabic and Turkish. We read the Quran. We fasted 40 days during Ramadan. We lived by the rules of Halal and Haram, Mushbuded, dietary restrictions. We prayed five times a day, facing Mecca, [Speaking Arabic] doing our prayer time.
My father was an Ulema in the mosque. An Ulema is a scholar. He was an architect by vocation. And when we came to America in 78, through Brooklyn, we settled in Columbus, Ohio to build mosques. That is exactly what my father did until the day he died, 1999.
We were not casual Muslims. We were not comfortable Muslims. We were the devout. We wore keffiyeh. We spoke in Arabic and Turkish. We read the Quran. We fasted 40 days during Ramadan. We lived by the rules of Halal and Haram, Mushbuded, dietary restrictions. We prayed five times a day, facing Mecca, [Speaking Arabic] doing our prayer time.
Still, the challenge was to provide one sermon where he said he converted his senior year on November 4, 1982,
November 4, 1982
and he said his brother converted after he went to college
I was in college eight months later. My phone rang. I discovered that both my brothers had gotten saved.
I think I accomplished my goal. The mental backflips that you have to do to explain why Ergun accidentally said all of these false claims in the same sermon are ridiculous.
Sources
“From Jihad to Jesus” 4/26/2010 Focus on the Family broadcast from a 2001 sermon at Prestonwood Baptist Church http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/From+Jihad+To+Jesus/g2QVv?src=5
“Church House or Jail House?” – North Alabama Bible Conference – 2005, Decatur Baptist Church: Decatur, AL – January 12, 2005 http://sermons.decaturbaptist.org/20050112PM.mp3
“General Session #2 - Dr. Ergun Caner” -- First Baptist Church Pearl City – Pearl City, HI - June 1, 2007 http://evangelism.fbcpearlcity.com/resources.html
“God’s Word,” The Downtown Church: Bellevue, WA – April 19, 2008 http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/gods-word/id321185342?i=113186322&mt=2
“The Greatest Day in Church”- Calvary Chapel Old Bridge – Old Bridge, NJ – January 25, 2009 http://www.bridgegap.org/e/shop/item.asp?itemid=2958#
“The Samaritan Woman” Canyon Creek Baptist Church – July 31, 2011 http://www.canyoncreekbc.org/resources/online-media.html?controller=studylist&task=download&study=13&media=0
“New Years Day Service” C3 Church: Clayton, North Carolina – January 1, 2012 http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/new-years-day-service-special/id125373478?i=109068443&mt=2
“Interview with Dr Canner Part 2 – Audio” Fortress of Faith – June 3, 2012 http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/new-years-day-service-special/id125373478?i=109068443&mt=2
Music
"The Deadly Year", "The Great Unknown", “Tuba Waddle”, “Hot Salsa”, and "Turkish Dance" from AudioNautix.com
“Ashes” and "The Bottom" by Josh Woodward from joshwoodward.com
"The Owl Named Orion" and "Art of Gardens" by danosongs.com
Cited Links
Tim Lee's statements
http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/05/after-11-months-liberty-university.html
September 25, 2010 article where Ergun says he did not lie.
http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2010/sep/25/caner-defends-background-bristol-speech-ar-524525/
The unedited Marine videos on Viddler
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jsin/videos/2/
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jsin/videos/1/
Unedited Marine Videos on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxmIMR1LNos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpDm3Z9tI-M
Ergun Caner's Apology
http://sbctoday.com/2010/02/25/statement-from-dr-ergun-caner/
Norman Geisler's statements
http://www.normangeisler.net/articles/ErgunCaner/
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