Exonerated Series

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I am working on the fifth video in my series on Ergun's claims that his father was a "polygamous Muslim".  There are still more videos to come after that one.

Here is the latest one.

Ergun Caner calls his father the "p" word

When Ergun's lies were originally coming out, a defender of Ergun was like sure he said that his father had "other wives", had "many wives", that his mother "found out late in her marriage that my father was married to more than one woman", had "more than one wife at a time", had three wives at the same time, smuggled his extra wives across the border calling them his sisters, but did Ergun ever use the word "polygamous"? Well here we have him saying that his father was a "polygamous Muslim". If all of these were just misstatements, what are the odds that I can produce more examples?

Transcript


OK, let me explain. No there is too much. Let me sum up. In Sweden, Acar Caner married Ergun’s mother. Ergun was born first in 1966. Erdem was born second in 1968. Then they picked up the family and moved to Ohio where Emir was born in 1970.

The marriage was troubled so Acar moved out around 1975. The divorce was finalized around 1978. Shortly thereafter, Acar remarried. He had two daughters from this second marriage.

No one disputes this. However, I have provided several examples of Ergun publicly misleading people to the contrary.

Example number one, in 2003, at a Chicago church, Ergun said the following.

My mother found out late in her marriage that my father was married to more than one woman. I don’t want anyone else to deal with this.

Example Number two, in 2005, Ergun said the following while lecturing Marines at Marine Corp Air Station New River

My father had more than one wife at a time. As you know the Quran says in Surah four that you are allowed up to four wives. My father had three.

Example Number three, in the same lecture, Ergun doubled down.

We got stopped at the border, because my father had listed my mother as property. It’s true. And the guy said, “Your wife’s not property.” And he said, “of course she is.” Then he brought his “sisters” which is his other wives that’s how we bring in our other wives to America. We call them our “sisters”.

Example Number four, a couple of months later, Ergun went back to the church in Chicago and said the following.

I came over during the Iranian crisis. Ayatollah Khomeini had taken control. The Shaw of Iran had been kicked out. And Ayatollah Khomeini said this, “We will not stop until America is an Islamic nation.” So in 1978, my father, my mother, my two brothers, my father’s other wives, and my half-brothers and sisters came to this country. How is it that Muslims can come to this country with other wives? Well it is called the Abraham lie. “This is my sister.” It explains our last names being the same. And so he would say, “This is my sisters.”

Remember coming to America in 1978, his father being married to many wives at the same time, his father smuggling these wives across the border as sisters, having half brothers…all of this Ergun maintains that he never meant to say. Supposedly he never meant for people to believe any of those things.

Well here we come to example number five, September 2006 at an apologetics conference in California. Warning, this clip will be longer for greater context and irony.

It isn’t just, it is a rare person who gets led to Christ by reading a book, by reading a testimony. Those things are great supplements, but almost inevitably it needs the human touch, a Christian, a sold out, a born again, a blood bought, Jesus loving, devil shoving, Christian, who is willing to, with boldness and with heart, rise up and tell them, “I know your answer.” “I know the one for whom you’re seeking.

Paul lives this out in front of us. He begins with what I call authentic Christianity. And you can see it beginning there in verse two, when it says he speaks to them in the Hebrew dialect and they all got quiet.

And he doesn’t begin by going, “I am better than all of thee.” No, Paul begins by saying, “Yall know me.” “Yall know me.” That’s authentic Christianity. That’s transparent Christianity. It doesn’t point to us. It points to Him. He even in the middle of it goes, “Those men there, the council and the elders, the Sanhedrin, the leadership, they know that I used to be the hunter”. “I was Dog the Bounty Hunter and now I stand with those I used to hunt.” “I was holding their coats when they were stoning Stephen.”

With transparency, with painful authenticity, the apostle Paul says, “Yall know me.” “It is not about me.” “It is about the one I met.” One of the things that holds us back from revolutionizing the world sometimes is us. We get all caught up in who we are and fight over things we shouldn’t fight over and we argue over things that are not necessarily the important points of the gospel. We argue about what we should wear in church whether the choir ought to have robes and neglecting the fact that there are people outside doors of that church on the way to a devil’s hell and they don’t care what color the robes are.

I hated you. That may be harsh, but as Dr. Hayes told you, my madrasa – my training center – was in Beirut before I came to America. We came as missionaries to you. My father was a muezzin, the one who does the prayer in the mosque. Five times a day he would climb to the top of a minaret and begin, [different language] and he would do the call to prayer. He was also an architect so we built mosques. And so we came to America – it was ’78. Ayatollah Khomeini had said, we will not stop until America is an Islamic nation and we came and we continue to come.

Anything I knew about Christianity, I learned through misconception and caricature. I knew nothing about you, had never been in a church, had never been outside of the mosque. Anything I knew about you, I learned through either television, hyperbole, gossip, but I did know this. I hated you and I thought you hated me.

Muslims live in enclaves. We travel together, because this is necessary for us. It is necessary for us, because we live differently, dress differently, look differently. I was the oldest. My father brought his wives with him. Yes, polygamous Muslims do come to America. We call it the Abraham lie. They say, “This is my wife, and this is my sister.”

And everybody goes aren’t they so family oriented. Yeah. And we moved from Brooklyn, New York near the Verrazano Bridge to Toledo, Ohio, Toledo, Ohio to Columbus, Ohio and it was there where my father built the mosque working with the other Muslims.

Now it is different than the way we do it here in America. It is different than the way the church does it. Yall know how we do it in the church when we are going to build something? We get together and we get a slogan. Somebody gets a slogan and we gather the people together and we show them a blueprint. Then somebody draws a thermometer.

Did you hear that?

Muslims live in enclaves. We travel together, because this is necessary for us. It is necessary for us, because we live differently, dress differently, look differently. I was the oldest. My father brought his wives with him. Yes, polygamous Muslims do come to America. We call it the Abraham lie. They say, “This is my wife, and this is my sister.”

And everybody goes aren’t they so family oriented. Yeah. And we moved from Brooklyn, New York near the Verrazano Bridge to Toledo, Ohio, Toledo, Ohio to Columbus, Ohio and it was there where my father built the mosque…

No one disagrees with what he said,

I was the oldest. My father brought his wives with him. Yes, polygamous Muslims do come to America. We call it the Abraham lie. They say, “This is my wife, and this is my sister.”

The contention is with what he meant.

Ergun wants you to believe that when he referred to his father as a “polygamous Muslim”,

My father brought his wives with him. Yes, polygamous Muslims do come to America.

he had no intention that you would believe that his father was a “polygamous Muslim”.

My father brought his wives with him. Yes, polygamous Muslims do come to America.

Remember Ergun concedes that his father was not polygamous, he and his defenders simply argue that he never intentionally said anything to the contrary. Stay tuned to Moses Model to hear more examples of Ergun saying things to the contrary. Remember shares, likes, and subscriptions really help get the word out. Also, any critiques and recommendations are welcome.

Sources

Some of these links may be broken.  If so email me for unedited sources. 

"20 Things You Must Know to Witness to a Muslim" - Ashburn Baptist Church - Chicago, Il - March 2, 2003 Link

"Base Theater" - Marine Corp Air Station New River - New River, NC - April 15, 2005 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpDm3Z9tI-M

"Dr. Ergun Caner and the Teen Choir and Orchestra from the First Baptist Church of Jacksonville, Florida - A" - Ashburn Baptist Church - Chicago, Il - June 3, 2005 Link

Music

"Haunted Forest" by soundcloud.com
"A year ago" by Pixt http://dig.ccmixter.org/dig?user=Pitx
"Handyman's Lament" by Josh Woodward from joshwoodward.com
Sound Effects provided by soundbible.com and shockwave-sound.com

Cited Links

Tim Lee's statements
http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/05/after-11-months-liberty-university.html

September 25, 2010 article where Ergun says he did not lie.
http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2010/sep/25/caner-defends-background-bristol-speech-ar-524525/

The unedited Marine videos on Viddler
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jsin/videos/2/
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jsin/videos/1/

Unedited Marine Videos on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxmIMR1LNos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpDm3Z9tI-M

Ergun Caner's Apology
http://sbctoday.com/2010/02/25/statement-from-dr-ergun-caner/

Norman Geisler's statements
http://www.normangeisler.net/articles/ErgunCaner/

VES Statement Regarding Dr. Ergun Caner

VES Statement Regarding Dr. Ergun Caner

Thank you for your inquiry regarding Dr. Ergun Caner. As far as VES is concerned, our policy regarding adjunct professors is to base any disciplinary decision on the professor’s home school investigation and conclusions on moral and/or theological matters such as these. Liberty University has conducted an exhaustive independent investigation of these charges and issued their conclusions in a June 29, 2010 statement as follows:

After a thorough and exhaustive review of Dr. Ergun Caner’s public statements, a committee consisting of four members of Liberty University’s Board of Trustees has concluded that Dr. Caner has made factual statements that are self-contradictory. However, the committee found no evidence to suggest that Dr. Caner was not a Muslim who converted to Christianity as a teenager, but, instead, found discrepancies related to matters such as dates, names and places of residence. Dr. Caner has cooperated with the board committee and has apologized for the discrepancies and misstatements that led to this review. Dr. Caner’s current contractual term as Dean of Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary expires on June, 30, 2010. Dr. Caner will no longer serve as Dean of Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary. The university has offered, and Dr. Caner has accepted, an employment contract for the 2010-2011 academic year. Dr. Caner will remain on the faculty of Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary as a professor.

 Since Dr. Caner’s conversion testimony was validated, he was not charged with any legal, moral, mal-intent, or theological heresy, only “misstatements” (common to all speakers, for which he has apologized), VES will be retaining Dr. Caner as a valued adjunct faculty member and regular speaker at VES conferences. In light of these findings, VES considers Dr. Caner exonerated from all charges.

Sincerely,

Veritas Evangelical Seminary

Murrieta, California

July 1, 2010

Foolishly it is the official statement of Veritas Evangelical Seminary that during the following lectures given at Marine Corp Air Station New River, Ergun never intentionally claimed that he came to America in 1978 with a polygamist father.





Listen for yourself.

HT:  Ephesians 5:11

Ergun Caner preaches in Arabic at the Dome of the Rock

I saw this tweet by Ergun from his most recent Israel trip and I could not help but think about his claim to have preached in Arabic in the Dome of the Rock.  Also, he has claimed to have come to Israel twice before the age of 16.

The first clip is from Ashburn Baptist Church, September 2005.  The second clip is from Thomas Road's Super Conference 2005, October 2005.  The third clip is from Liberty's Israel Trip, February 2010. Email me for any of the unedited sources.

I think at this point I am pretty well convinced that Ergun does not have the ability to preach in Arabic.  However, there were tons of witnesses to these Arabic sermons.  I would like to hear from them.

Below is my only Arabic video.  Also, James White attempted to translate some Ergun's Arabic.  Also, I find that there is almost nothing that Ergun has said that Mohammed Khan did not know about before me. 

Member of Prestonwood says he was kicked out for questions

All of the normal caveats here follow. We only have one side of the story here, but I thought that this was pressing enough to highlight.  This video was posted yesterday by crtynes77.

I was sitting on the hood of my car patiently waiting to ask Mike Buster why he cancelled our meeting when 3 security guards came out of the building, including the director of Security. The Dir got right in my personal space as you can see and I was lucky I pressed record properly as I couldn't see the screen. I missed the first minute or so of the conversation. This is unbelievable!!

 He then goes on to explain this in the comment section.

The Dir of Ops at Prestonwood called shortly thereafter and threatened action against me if I attempted to contact anyone at Prestonwood or even stepped foot on campus. When I asked if I was allowed to attend church, he simply reiterated, "You are not to step foot on Prestonwood campus again." and then hung up. This is how they treat a long term member who wanted to ask a few questions. I didn't want to believe this was a cover-up, but you decide.

According to Dee Parsons, the canceled meeting was about John Langworthy, a child molester that Prestonwood did not report to the police in 1989. (They only fired him.) Since Langworthy confessed in a Mississippi pulpit, this has been a source of embarrassment for Prestonwood and all the churches who did not report this serial child molester to the cops. 

I can imagine that many members want answers. I will try to post more about this story, but something tells me that Dee will have the best coverage over at The Wartburg Watch.

PS - I have a video in my Does Emir Know? series about Ergun's sermon at Prestonwood. 

Contact Ergun directly...

This was recently posted in the comment section on FBCJAXWatchdog's post about "Ergun Caner - the Lance Armstrong of Evangelical Christianity - Finally Returns to Prominent SBC Pulpit, Where Decade of Deceit Began." Obviously the normal caveats need to be said here.  As Ergun has proven, anyone can say anything on the internet, especially without sourcing.  Also, anecdotes are one of the weakest forms of evidence.  All of that being said, I wanted to share this comment.

Simon C. said...

Anyone ever had the bright idea of trying to email Caner directly? I tried because I thought that all the allegations couldn't possibly be true. I get the most friendly guy on the planet, until I mention that I think that he should repent of the things I thought legitimate. Then he blew up at me about it and ended the conversation. That showed me what was what in this matter. I may not agree with the Watchdog on everything (I think that some things he goes after are more than a little nit-picky) but I certainly do on this matter. And it makes me look at everything the people connected to Ergun Caner say in a different light.

I have tried to contact Ergun directly.  I think that I fall under his do not respond to critics policy.  In fairness, I remember what it was like having Ergun in the seminary.  His emails went through his secretary.  At Liberty, if an important professor responded to your email, it was more than likely that the response actually came from their secretary on their behalf, even on theological questions.  (If you ever want to get anything done, talk to the secretaries.)  I can think of one professor who received the same theological questions over and over.  Instead of forwarding the questions on, his secretary started answering the FAQs herself. 

Like when he was at Liberty, the sheer volume of email that Ergun receives probably prevents him from responding to them all.  Perhaps, just perhaps, he should not invite email if he cannot respond to them.  Perhaps, just perhaps, some of Ergun's defenders should not demand that we contact Ergun directly if he will not respond or will not respond in a cordial manner.

Back when I knew Ergun, he enjoyed his facebook account, because it was just him.  His secretary had nothing to do with it, even though I think she eventually figured out the password.   This was about the same time that the Marine videos were filmed.  Over the last couple of years, I have begun to wonder how much of what I "knew" was true.

Haters are crickets

Some days, I don't get Ergun.  He says that he is on the front lines debating and enjoying conflict.  Then he also teaches that people are to avoid their critics, especially on the web. 

I would like to talk to Ergun, but he does not want to talk to me.  Oh well, I guess I will just have to keep making videos about his father smuggling women across the border.