Class who was Virginia named after?

This was recently posted in the comment section on FBCJAXWatchdog's post about Ergun calling some Muslims "towelhead stalkers".  Obviously the normal caveats need to be said here.  As Ergun has proven, anyone can say anything on the internet, especially without sourcing.  Also, anecdotes are one of the weakest forms of evidence.  All of that being said, I wanted to share this comment.

SBCPW said...

"Even the public statement made by Liberty University on June 29, 2010 made this clear when it said, “Dr. Caner has cooperated with the Board committee and has apologized for the discrepancies and misstatements that led to this review.”

My husband was attending Liberty during this time. Caner was one of the more interesting professors to listen to. Unfortunately, after this happened you had to second guess everything he said. In one class about church history he asserts that Virginia was named after the Virgin Mary. Anyone who is familiar with history knows this to be a false statement. Not a life-altering "misstatement" but nevertheless untrue. And why? That was our question all along. Why lie? The Christian community was eating up his testimony like it was the 67th book of the Bible without all of the embellishments...so why lie?

Yes, there is repentance and forgiveness in the church. However, Ergun Caner should have lost all privileges to stand behind a pulpit and preach to anyone. While you should always study the word of God on your own and not just believe it because the pastor said it...you should at least be confident that the person behind the pulpit is not intentionally misleading you.

The answer to life the universe and everything

The answer to life the universe and everything

Recently one of Ergun's defenders challenged someone in the comment section of a blog to produce an example of Ergun saying "towel head".  Given Ergun's affinity (2001-2005, 2005-2010, 2010-2011) for using the word and his recent tweets, it was a silly challenge to make.  I have many more examples as does anyone with Ergun Caner media.

Warning satire follows:

Still in the spirit of Dr. Norman Geisler, I would like to pose a defense of Ergun Caner.

1. While speaking quickly on one occasion, Ergun accidentally jumped from his towel drying story to a joke about his bald head.  At least he didn't use other slurs.  This was hardly an attempt to say "towel head".
2. It is well known that Ergun Caner is a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy fan.  When he said "towel head" he was actually making a reference to the most massively useful thing an interstellar hitchhiker can have.  You can even wrap it round your head to ward off noxious fumes or to avoid the gaze of the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal (a mindboggingly stupid animal, it assumes that if you can't see it, it can't see you - daft as a bush, but very ravenous).  Ergun regularly observes Towel Day.
3. This statement was intended as humor and was taken as such by the audience. Indeed, Ergun has made this joke for more than a decade and never once was it taken as a insult against Muslims. He was illustrating the misconceptions between Americans and Muslims.

Youtube:Battling CORRUPT Bishops and Pastors Who Attack FREE SPEECH

I have read about NotYourTypicalNegro, but until today I had not watched any of his videos.  He does a great job in this video of summarizing the attacks against free speech that corrupt pastors liked to use.  Also, he mentions two of my favorite blogs, FBCJaxWatchdog and  SpiritualSoundingBoard.  He has definitely earned my subscription.

The best point is at the end.  These men and women publicly publish themselves to thousands and even millions of people globally through sermons, books, radio, video, television, blogs, and the internet.  Still let someone with a blog or youtube account criticize them and the backlash comes frothing.  

HT: Julie Anne

This is too much to accept on faith

I have been thinking that Ergun's defenders seem to want us to take a lot on faith.  For example, here is Geilser's defense of Ergun claiming to have half-brothers.

7. Ergun claimed his father had many wives and two half-brothers and two half-sisters, but there is no evidence for the half-brothers.

Response: Ergun’s father did have two wives, having divorced the first one. He had three sons by his first wife (Ergun and his two brothers). So, Ergun has two full brothers and two step-sisters (from his father’s second wife). While speaking quickly on one occasion, he mistakenly called his brothers his “half” brothers. This is hardly evidence of an attempt to embellish or deceive. After all, he had the right number of each sibling, and he didn’t claim to have ten brothers or sisters!

According to Geisler the following examples amount to "one occasion".

June 2005

I came over during the Iranian crisis. Ayatollah Khomeini had taken control. The Shaw of Iran had been kicked out. And Ayatollah Khomeini said this, “We will not stop until America is an Islamic nation.” So in 1978, my father, my mother, my two brothers, my father’s other wives, and my half-brothers and sisters came to this country. How is it that Muslims can come to this country with other wives? Well it is called the Abraham lie. “This is my sister.” It explains our last names being the same. And so he would say, “This is my sisters.”

June 2005

I have half-brothers and half-sisters in Chicago in New York and in Turkey who live here who are still lost as geese still in the slavery of Islam. But I will not give up. How dare I give up. My father died in 99. His wives are still alive. How dare I give up. My half-sisters are still alive. How dare I give up. My half-brothers, my uncles, my aunts. How dare I give up. He didn’t give up on me. He didn’t stop. God didn’t stop hunting me down.

This is the picture that he is referencing

September 2006

This was my father, the one I spoke of yesterday, Acar Mehmet Caner. I am the second from him, that is one of my half sisters, one of my half brothers, and one other of my father’s children. I am the knock kneed child sitting there with my father. This was in Turkey. This was in Istanbul.

January 2009

My father had other wives. My father died in '99, never accepted Jesus. I have half-brothers and sisters who don't know Jesus. Here is why I am telling you this. Some of you, stepped over people on your way here this morning. People that have told you no a hundred times.

 I have tried not to accept things said about Ergun on faith.  However, these self proclaimed apologists who confront culture on the front lines demand that I accept that all four of these examples are just Ergun speaking quickly.  I just don't have that much faith.

Why not just quote Ergun?

This is a comment I wrote on one of FBCJax's latest blogs.  Basically, Ergun's defenders say trust us, this is not what he meant.  Also, the double standard is shocking.  Ergun gets to call people towelheads and denounce them from the pulpit and he is somehow above criticism. 

Anon 8:54,

"The charges on the surface sounds formidable until they are met with TRUTH, then they quickly evaporate away losing all power to condemn – leaving the accusers to contemplate their actions."

Dr. Geisler maintains that these statements are not Ergun claiming his father was polygamous.

March 2003
"My mother found out late in her marriage that my father was married to more than one woman. I don’t want anyone else to deal with this."

April 2005
My father had more than one wife at a time. As you know the Quran says in Surah four that you are allowed up to four wives. My father had three.

April 2005
"We got stopped at the border, because my father had listed my mother as property. It’s true. And the guy said, 'Your wife’s not property.' And he said, 'of course she is.' Then he brought his 'sisters' which is his other wives that’s how we bring in our other wives to America. We call them our 'sisters'".

June 2005
"I came over during the Iranian crisis. Ayatollah Khomeini had taken control. The Shaw of Iran had been kicked out. And Ayatollah Khomeini said this, 'We will not stop until America is an Islamic nation.' So in 1978, my father, my mother, my two brothers, my father’s other wives, and my half-brothers and sisters came to this country. How is it that Muslims can come to this country with other wives? Well it is called the Abraham lie. 'This is my sister.' It explains our last names being the same. And so he would say, 'This is my sisters.'"

September 2006
"I was the oldest. My father brought his wives with him. Yes, polygamous Muslims do come to America. We call it the Abraham lie. They say, 'This is my wife, and this is my sister.'"

June 2007
We got stopped coming to America, I can’t believe I’m telling you this, but I’m gonna. We got stopped coming to America in 1978. My father listed my mother as property on the manifest. Acar Mehmet Caner listed Monica Inez Caner, my mom, as property. And by the way, he came to America like many Muslims do with many wives, but polygamy is not allowed. It’s called the Abraham lie. Who knows what I’m talking about? This is my sister, that’s right. So my father had, he said, ‘This is my wife, Halah, and these are my sisters. It explains the last name.

It is laughable that you consider it truth that none of these statements are Ergun claiming that his father was polygamous.

PS - Ergun Anonymous defenders, welcome to the club.

2010-2011 Ergun Caner using the word "towelhead"

This is the third video in this series.  Honestly, I feel a little silly.  The only reason that I made these videos is because one of Ergun's friends demanded proof.  Both another seminary student and I remember Ergun using the word "towelhead" while we were attending Liberty.  These ten examples were only just the ones that I could produce on short notice. 

This friend of Ergun was closer to the man than I ever was.  You would think that he would not be surprised at his use of the term.  Now, Ergun could claim, as he has many times, that being a Turk gives him certain rights to use certain slurs, especially slurs against Turks and Arabs. Yet that was not even the question.  This friend wanted proof that he had ever said the slur. 

The relevant blog can be found here. http://hereiblog.com/ethics-guest-preacher-calls-muslims-towelheads/

2005-2010 Ergun Caner saying "towelhead" montage

January 8, 2013, John Ankerberg invited Ergun and Emir onto his show praying that their testimony would win Muslims to Christ. January 20, 2013 Ergun went into a twitter tirade and one of the insults he used was "towelhead". Around 2005, Ergun put out a video where he claimed that Stelzer Rd Baptist Church loved him to the cross by not insulting him. Apparently Ergun has abandoned that strategy.

Inspired by this drama, HereIBlog, posted an interesting ethical scenario. You invite your Muslim friend to church to here a former Muslim speak preach. During his sermon, the former Muslim refers to Muslims as "towelheads". What do you do?

Someone in the comments demanded that the blogger "put up or shut up. Point me to a sermon where Ergun Caner has used such a term." This is my first attempt to put up.

The relevant blog can be found here. http://hereiblog.com/ethics-guest-preacher-calls-muslims-towelheads/

2001-2005 Ergun Caner saying "towelhead" montage

January 8, 2013, John Ankerberg invited Ergun and Emir onto his show praying that their testimony would win Muslims to Christ. January 20, 2013 Ergun went into a twitter tirade and one of the insults he used was "towelhead". Around 2005, Ergun put out a video where he claimed that Stelzer Rd Baptist Church loved him to the cross by not insulting him. Apparently Ergun has abandoned that strategy.

Inspired by this drama, HereIBlog, posted an interesting ethical scenario. You invite your Muslim friend to church to here a former Muslim speak preach. During his sermon, the former Muslim refers to Muslims as "towelheads". What do you do?

Someone in the comments demanded that the blogger "put up or shut up. Point me to a sermon where Ergun Caner has used such a term." This is my first attempt to put up.

The relevant blog can be found here. http://hereiblog.com/ethics-guest-preacher-calls-muslims-towelheads/

Things change

I have tried to never exaggerate my contact with Ergun Caner.  He knew me.  I knew him.  We worked together on certain things.  I don't know if he would have called me a friend, an acquaintance, or just another student.  Once or twice he invited me over to his place, but he invited a lot of seminary students over to his place. 

I started MosesModel two years ago in 2010.  I was still a seminary student back then.  The Marine videos were of a lecture that was only five years old.  As the years pass, I am a graduate and the Marine videos are about to turn eight years old, this April.

It is entirely possible that I am out of touch with what is going on at Liberty in 2013.  I know some Liberty students, but they mostly agree with me.  I think I know a few professors who still think that Ergun never lied.  However, their opinions could have changed since I last asked them.  I know the last year has been transformative for my way of thinking.

Ankerberg and Lee still maintain that Liberty never found one instance of Ergun lying. If they are wrong, why does no one correct them? Ergun still maintains that he never lied in a sermon or lecture. Why does no one correct him?  Ergun still does speaking engagements with Tony Nolan and Clayton King, but that is just guilt by association.  (I have often wondered why the Holy Spirit does not convict Ergun from just being around King and Nolan.)  Also, Liberty is closely tied to FRC and Ergun will be one of their speakers again this year, but again that is just guilt by association.

So I could be out of touch.  I hope that I am, but there is some things that imply that I am not, but most of that is just guilt by association. 

God Bless,

Moses