Ergun Caner: Does Emir Know? - Introduction

Welcome to another episode of "what are the odds".  Many have wondered about Emir Caner's position on his brother's fabrications.  The summer of 2010, he defended his brother saying,  Ergun had demonstrated "unquestionable Christian character".  This was just "a few incorrect statements". 

"His character, integrity, and bold witness are truly an emulation of a shepherd's heart and an evangelist's passion."

March 15, 2012, Emir referred to Ergun as "one of God's most anointed expository preachers". Now to be fair, Emir never said that Ergun did not lie or did not intentionally mislead people. However calling his brother a man of "unquestionable Christian character" seems to suggest Ergun did not lie.  Here is the problem, Ergun has lied about Emir.  Does Emir know this?  Maybe not. 
Let's explore the issue. 

To understand this first video you need some background.  Unveiling Islam authored by Ergun and Emir, explains Ergun's brothers' conversions this way. 

"Ergun's brothers, however, listened.  Erdem accepted Christ in the basement of their home.  Ergun then invited Emir to a revival service the following year.  There, for the first time in his life, Emir heard that God loved him and desired to have a personal relationship with him.  Though he had been to church before, this was the first time he could recall hearing a preacher speak openly and honestly about the exclusivity of the Gospel.  Only through the blood of Jesus, spilt on the cross, can someone be saved.  Yet the preacher also spoke compassionately about God's desire to save everyone.

Although there was only one way, the path was open for all who would believe.  On November 4, 1982, Emir was born again." 

Simple enough.  Erdem accepted Christ in their basement.  Ergun invited Emir to a revival service the following year.  November 4, 1982, a Thursday, Emir was born again.  The story seems simple to tell.  Ergun however in at least two instances will get the story horribly wrong.  I will let you decide if it was intentional or not. 

Let me set the next example up for you.  Ergun had already claimed a myriad of false things. He said he came to America in 1978 and he was 14 in 1978. Yet he really came to America before August of 1970.  He turned 12 in November 3, 1978.

Next Claim: He was a High School Senior in 1982 with the implication of being near college age, 18 years old. Again this is wrong.  Ergun graduated with the class of 1984.  He ended his Sophomore year in 1982 and began his Junior year that fall.  He turned 16 in November 3, 1982. 

All of this will be handled in greater detail in a later video.  Yet you needed the greater context of the main clip.  Here Ergun claimed that he converted in November 4, 1982. November 4, 1982?  Why does that sound familiar?  Oh yeah, that was the day that Unveiling Islam says that Emir was saved.

What are the odds?

He claimed that he was thrown out of his house post-conversion and had to live in garages and basements.  Ergun's mother had primary custody of Ergun and his brothers since the divorce.   His father only had partial custody.  When his father disowned him, Ergun did not have to live in garages and basements. 

Both of Ergun's brothers were not saved after he preached a seven minute sermon...at least not according to them.  Ergun said some things that were grossly false.  While you ponder if this was an intentional or unintentionally, perhaps you should wonder "does Emir know?" 

If Ergun never intentionally misled anyone, what are the odds that I can provide other examples?

Sources:

Unveiling Islam http://books.google.com/books?id=HJJ0posDfDUC&lpg=PA17&vq=erdem&pg=PA19#v=snippet&q=erdem&f=false

General Session #2 - Dr. Ergun Caner -- June 1, 2007 http://evangelism.fbcpearlcity.com/resources.html

Music:
"Monster" by Peach Stealing Monkeys from PeachStealingMonkeys.com
"Spanish Summer" and "Rags 2 Riches Rag" from AudioNautix.com
"The Bottom" by Josh Woodward from joshwoodward.com

Cited Links

Tim Lee's statements
http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/05/after-11-months-liberty-university.html

September 25, 2010 article where Ergun says he did not lie.
http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2010/sep/25/caner-defends-background-bristol-speech-ar-524525/

The unedited Marine videos on Viddler
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jsin/videos/2/
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jsin/videos/1/

Unedited Marine Videos on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxmIMR1LNos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpDm3Z9tI-M

Ergun Caner's Apology
http://sbctoday.com/2010/02/25/statement-from-dr-ergun-caner/

Norman Geisler's statements
http://www.normangeisler.net/insupportofcaner.html
http://www.normangeisler.net/infurtherdefenseofcaner.html
http://www.normangeisler.net/indefenseofcaner.html

Ergun Caner is speaking at En Fuego 2012

"En Fuego is Spanish for "On Fire". Ergun Caner is going to speak at En Fuego 2012, the largest Christian Music Festival.

"En Fuego is Spanish for "On Fire". The event is a one-day rally where students from every denomination and background come together for the purpose of worship and seeing Jesus Christ change lives. An outdoor event, the rally has a very intense yet intimate camp-like feel and some have referred to it as 'the Christian Woodstock of your generation.'"

Perhaps En Fuego 2012 does not know Ergun lied to our countries heroes.  Ergun Caner should apologize to those Marines. En Fuego 2012 should not allow him to speak until he does.  As "a worship experience for believers and an evangelistic outreach for the lost", this does not seem like too much to ask. Some might say that a Christian minister like Ergun Caner, would never apologize for lying to our Marines.  I say God is great.  God also can do great things through his worshipers.  As always the unedited videos are provided in the video description.  Also, you can click on the annotations. 

Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. ~ John 14:13

I can do all things through Him who strengthens me. ~ Philippians 4:13

Music: "Chords for David" "See you later" both by Pixt
http://dig.ccmixter.org/dig?user=Pitx

Cited Links

En Fuego 2012, August 25, 2012
http://www.enfuegoinfo.com/

En Fuego FAQ
http://www.myspace.com/enfuegoinfo/blog/536018841

Tim Lee's statements
http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/05/after-11-months-liberty-university.html

September 25, 2010 article where Ergun says he did not lie.
http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2010/sep/25/caner-defends-background-bristol-speech-ar-524525/

The unedited Marine videos on Viddler
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jsin/videos/2/
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jsin/videos/1/

Unedited Marine Videos on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxmIMR1LNos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpDm3Z9tI-M

Ergun Caner's Apology
http://sbctoday.com/2010/02/25/statement-from-dr-ergun-caner/

Norman Geisler's statements
http://www.normangeisler.net/insupportofcaner.html
http://www.normangeisler.net/infurtherdefenseofcaner.html
http://www.normangeisler.net/indefenseofcaner.html

SBC Plodder: Don't get suckered by the 'Pastor jailed for holding Bible study' case

Great post over at SBC Plodder!

SBC Plodder: Don't get suckered by the 'Pastor jailed for holdi...: Conservative Christians provide a thriving market for stories like the one making the rounds here recently about the Phoenix pastor jailed ...

C3 Church 1/1/2012: You're making things up again Ergun...

New Years Day Service - Special Guest Dr. Ergun Caner from C3 Church on Vimeo.

January 1, 2012, Ergun Caner spoke at C3 church.  During his sermon, he made the following statement:

[28:40] “And entering in to High School, that is exactly what I was.  I was, no questions, your biggest critic.  I was your enemy.  And you know what reached me for the gospel?  It wasn’t a guy on TV.  It wasn’t somebody with purple hair crying purple tears…or some singer…or someone who had written books.  It was one High School kid who wouldn’t shut up.  One kid who was never scared.  Jerry Tackett hunted me…Freshman year…Sophomore year…Junior year. ‘Dude you want to come with me to fourth quarter?’ ‘Dude you want to come to fifth quarter?’  ‘Want to come to the hotdog hog out…the pizza pig out?’ ‘Want to come to our church Youth Group meeting?’  ‘Want to come roller skating?’  I said ‘no’ a thousand different ways; a thousand different times; and a thousand different permutations.  ‘No! No! Shut up! Leave me alone!’  He never shut up.  He had the eyes that Elisha talked about.  Greater resources do we have than all the chariots they’ve got.  He knew his God was real, mine was fake and all he had to do was keep hunting me down. 

How many of us, if we go to somebody’s door and…or if we share with a colleague or friend …you knock on the door and oh God help you if you know on the door and you face hostility…and they slam the door in your face… Most people would go ‘huh, well he must not be one of the elect’.  ‘I will mark him off my list.’  ‘Enjoy Hell.’  ‘Move on.’ Not Jerry Tackett…he kept coming. 

Finally going into my Senior year, I decide, ‘You know what? I’ll show you.’  And I went, I walked, I said ‘alright, I’ll come, come, come I’ll come.‘” 

According to Unveiling Islam, Emir Caner converted a year later than Ergun, November 4, 1982.  Ergun was born, November 3, 1966 and graduated eighteen years later in 1984.  If Emir’s date is correct he converted during the Fall of Ergun’s Junior year in High School.  About a year before Emir’s conversion would have been from January 1981-till maybe May 1982 (the Spring of Ergun’s Freshman year and his entire Sophomore year).  Even Emir’s conversion date is a far cry from Ergun’s Senior year (Fall 1983-Spring 1984).  The point is, we don’t when Ergun converted, but it definitely was not his Senior year or even his Junior year. 

Later he also the following:

[34:17] “Year later, I’m disowned.  A year later, I am studying for the ministry.  I loss my family and I find out my church is my family.   Both brothers got saved.”

This whole quote seems to give the wrong idea.  After claiming to be a Senior, he say he was “studying for the ministry.”  This may be so, but he was studying as a Junior in High School.  He seems to give the impression that he was a High School graduate.  

He also says he was “disowned” and he loss his family.  This also is at the very least misleading.  He was disowned by his father, but he continued to live with his mother and brothers.  His parents’ divorce was finalized in 1978.  His mother had primary custody of him and his brothers.  When Ergun was disowned, his church may have been his family, but so were his mother and brothers.  

I am sadden to see that Ergun's truce with the truth has expired less than two years after his dismissal as LBTS President.  Unfortunately this is not the only 2012 example of Ergun saying he converted during his Senior year.

The C3 Sermon can be found here.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/new-years-day-service-special/id125373478?i=109068443&mt=2

Probably my only Ergun Caner gibberish video

Like many of you, I do not speak Arabic, Turkish, Pashto, Dari, or Farsi,.  When speakers of these languages say that Ergun was speaking gibberish; there is little way for me to tell.  However there is one phrase that Ergun has repeated at least three times: April 15, 2005; June 2, 2007; and February 28, 2008.

If he is really quoting a foreign language, one should expect the quote and translation to remain the same over the years.  They sound nothing alike.  Even if he made quoting errors over the years what are the odds that I discovered the only three examples that do not line up?   If you have any other examples, I would be glad to listen to them.

Do they sound the same to you? Skeptics are welcome.

The April 15, 2005 clip can be found here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpDm3Z9tI-M

The June 2, 2007 clip can be found here.  It is the second Islam lecture
http://evangelism.fbcpearlcity.com/resources.html

The February 28, 2008 clip is from Ergun's Rick and Bubba interview.  The links have recently gone dead.  I will try to get the interview up.  In the mean time, I can email you the interview.  You can request the mp3 at Mosesmodel@yahoo.com

Music:

"Monster" by Peach Stealing Monkies http://www.peachstealingmonkeys.com/music/

"A Year Ago" by Pixt http://ccmixter.org/files/Pitx/11068

Also I owe the authors of two youtube videos for a lot of the information in this video. First, "frizzleyfrozzle" was the first one who pointed out that Ergun had gave two different phrases with the same translation.


Also James White's "Ergun Caner and Arabic: A Review" has been the best thing that has been done on Ergun's "Arabic".



Also, while I cannot cite a specific video, we all owe a debt to Mohammed Khan who first pointed out Ergun's inconsistencies and gibberish.

PS ~ My video has been mirrored by a MCDebate.  The mirror has not been labeled a mirror or attributed to me.  The title, "Ergun Caner, Fake Ex-Muslim Evangelical Leader Speaks Gibberish In Order to Fool His Audience", is not something that I endorse.  I may hypothesize that it is true, but unlike many that I have cited above, I cannot prove.  I speak none of the possible languages.  Update 8/27/12 - MCDebate has apologized and attributed the video to me. 

Cited Links

Tim Lee's statements
http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/05/after-11-months-liberty-university.html

September 25, 2010 article where Ergun says he did not lie.
http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2010/sep/25/caner-defends-background-bristol-speech-ar-524525/

The unedited Marine videos on Viddler
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jsin/videos/2/
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jsin/videos/1/

Unedited Marine Videos on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxmIMR1LNos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpDm3Z9tI-M

Ergun Caner's Apology
http://sbctoday.com/2010/02/25/statement-from-dr-ergun-caner/

Norman Geisler's statements
http://www.normangeisler.net/insupportofcaner.html
http://www.normangeisler.net/infurtherdefenseofcaner.html
http://www.normangeisler.net/indefenseofcaner.html

Ergun is married to his wife Emir :)

With all the listening to Ergun Caner sermons that I have done this summer, I needed this laugh.  Thank you internet for podcasting errors.  

Dr. Ergun Mehmet Caner

Ergun Caner was born as a Muslim and immigrated into America during his childhood.  Due to the persistent witnessing of a High School Christian friend, Ergun got saved.  As a result, he was disowned by his family, but Argun’s faith in Christ was so real that he forsook people he loved to follow God who loved him enough to die for him.  Now Ergun is training future pastors and missionaries for the gospel ministry.

I wanted to interview Professor Caner today for you to hear his life changing story to realize that Muslims can be saved in America and God can do a wonderful work in their life.  This is an exciting story, you will not want to miss.

I also discuss something he said in his book that he co-authored with his wife Emir, called ‘Unveiling Islam.’  I highly recommend this book, it can be found on Amazon.  Click here  

http://www.fortressoffaith.org/?s=ergun+caner
[I expect a correction soon] 

The podcasts can be found here.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/interview-dr.-ergun-caner/id486946417?i=116478388
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/interview-dr-canner-part-2/id486946417?i=116478389

In the second interview, Ergun is told by the interviewer that he assumes Ergun came to America as a teenager.  No definite lie here, but Ergun does not correct him.  Later, Ergun says that he converted during his Senior year in High School.  I am going to jot that one down as an almost definite lie considering Ergun's unrepentant history. 

I am sad that 6/3/2012, Ergun finally was recorded with the Senior year fib again.  However, I am giddy that he is married to his wife, Emir.

H/T Watchdog

Is Norman Geisler calling Ergun Caner a liar?

This is just a small sample of Ergun saying he came to America in 1978.  Ergun came to this country before August 1970.  Ergun maintains that he never intentionally mislead anyone.  How does Norman Geisler reconcile this?  Norman states,  "It is well known that Caner became a US citizen in 1978."

Well known? 

June 24, 2004, Ergun published an article on World Net Daily entitled, HATRIOTISM' & MICHAEL MOORE: TURKISH MUSLIM SAYS 'FAHRENHEIT 911' WRONG ON LIBERATION OF IRAQ

"I am a Persian Turkish immigrant raised as a Sunni Muslim, and in the interest of full disclosure, I must state that I left Islam in 1982, and became an American citizen."

This statement was repeated when Ergun published another article on Crosswalk, 25 days later, July 19, 2004, entitled more simply: Michael Moore and "Hatriotism"

Here he repeated:

"I am a Persian Turkish immigrant raised as a Sunni Muslim, and in the interest of full disclosure, I must state that I left Islam in 1982, the same year I became an American citizen."

Again, Ergun, himself, wrote at least twice in 2004 that he became a citizen in 1982.  He stated this was a part of fully disclosing his conflict of interests.  How can it both be "well known" that Ergun became a citizen in 1978 and "in the interest of full disclosure" that he became a citizen in 1982?

In fact does not both the 1978 and 1982 dates sound a little odd?

Ergun turned 12, November 3, 1978.  Did Ergun really become a US Citizen at the age of 11 or 12?  While not impossible, he seems rather young.  Ergun turned 16, November 3, 1982.  While possible, did Ergun really become a US Citizen at the age of 15 or 16?

It seems more likely that Ergun would become a citizen as an adult, after his eighteenth birthday, November 3, 1984.

"Caner was born in Stockholm, Sweden, became an American citizen in 1984 and a born-again Christian in 1982."

 In fact, The Free Lance -- Star reported August 2, 2003 that Ergun received his citizenship in 1984. 

So we have one year provided by Norman, which he says it was "well known" that Ergun gained his citizenship as a preteen. 

We have another year, printed by Ergun himself, that says he gained his citizenship around 15 or 16.

We have yet another year reported by a newspaper that says Ergun gained his citizenship near adulthood in 1984.

I think it is safe to say that it is not in any way "well known" when Ergun received his citizenship.  It is also pretty safe to say that Norman seems to call Ergun a liar; because Ergun himself wrote multiple times that he received his citizenship in 1982. 

So who do you think is telling the truth?

Unedited sources for the video clips
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpDm3Z9tI-M
http://evangelism.fbcpearlcity.com/media/msg-dr-caner.mov
http://library.ggbts.edu/Chapel/Missions/2010-2-13_MIssionsConference_CultureClash_PM-Evening-PlenarySession_DrErgunCaner.mp3

Norman Geisler's comments
http://www.normangeisler.net/articles/ErgunCaner/

Three articles written by Ergun Caner in 2004 where he claims to have become a citizen in 1982.
http://www.wnd.com/2004/06/25245/
http://jewishworldreview.com/0604/hate-riotism.php3
http://www.crosswalk.com/1274146/

The Free Lance Star that wrote that Ergun received his citizenship in 1984
http://news.google.com/newspapers?sjid=0QgGAAAAIBAJ&pg=6928,333707&dq=ergun+caner+1984&id=cTMzAAAAIBAJ

Music: Tuba Waddle,  Rags 2 Riches, and Green Leaves all provided by audionautix.com

Cited Links

Tim Lee's statements
http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/05/after-11-months-liberty-university.html

September 25, 2010 article where Ergun says he did not lie.
http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2010/sep/25/caner-defends-background-bristol-speech-ar-524525/

The unedited Marine videos on Viddler
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jsin/videos/2/
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jsin/videos/1/

Unedited Marine Videos on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxmIMR1LNos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpDm3Z9tI-M

Ergun Caner's Apology
http://sbctoday.com/2010/02/25/statement-from-dr-ergun-caner/

Norman Geisler's statements
http://www.normangeisler.net/insupportofcaner.html
http://www.normangeisler.net/infurtherdefenseofcaner.html
http://www.normangeisler.net/indefenseofcaner.html